15 - Logins, Love and Living Next Door

“From the outside, it looks like a puzzle. From the inside, it’s just Tuesday.” Today, we’re talking to Kat and Sam about their "Family Pretzel." They live next door, they share everything from pets to passwords, and they’ve built a life that defies every label in the book. We’re digging into the messy, beautiful, and highly practical details of how they made it work when everyone told them it shouldn't.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Kat, tell me about the medical insurance story.

SPEAKER_02 0:03

So I was getting a little concerned about how the VA takes care of Sam, which is practically non-existent. And so I wanted to get her into some doctors, which again, she's VA, so they don't let you just see whoever the heck you want. And so I tried to get her on my insurance because she lived with me at the time. And I was like, well, she lives with me. So like, can I claim her as like like I'm her guardian? Yeah. Which apparently I can't claim guardianship of an adult woman. Could have worked. What domestic partnership? But you can't have a domestic partnership and a husband. That's valid. So Kyle's on my insurance. That's wild. And kick Kyle. But he needs it too because he's also VA. I guess that's true.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

But did you like actually pick up the phone and call them and have this conversation? And what was their response? Like immediately they're like, ma'am, that's not an option. Basically.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

Yes. It was very much like, what are you trying to do? How old is it? What is the relation? And I was like, I mean, it's kind of like being sisters. And they were like, kind of an R, not the same thing. It's like, oh, I guess. We have the same last name. Like, can't you just like overlook this? And they they said no. Yeah. In no uncertain terms. It was a big no. Yeah. So you did not get onto my insurance and therefore did not get to see better doctors. And here we are. I appreciate the attempt. Very thoughtful. Instead, I just have to call the VA. I feel like way more often than I should. Do you do for me? I do.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

As yourself or as Sam.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Uh because she hasn't been Samantha.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

I have been Samantha a couple times. I have your social. So the only time that it has backfired. So for whatever reason, I get her birth date. Yeah. Like your date of birth, I get right, but the birth year sometimes I mess up. And so I had called and I said the wrong birth year. And they were like, did you mean? And I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I meant. And I don't think they believed me. But they still continued because I did technically. Yeah, like I technically answered the question correctly. So therefore they did continue to talk to me. I was just confused. I was confused. Yeah, it was just a day. I I mean, I was calling for my mental health, and so therefore it made total sense that I would forget my own birthday. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Oh, like even on my bad mental health base, I haven't really just saying for myself some credit. But yes, your point is valid. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

So we're 15 episodes in, and I feel like we haven't fully explored the interconnectedness of your relationship as much as we should have by now. Um, so that's what we're gonna do today. Welcome back to Friends with Benefits, the podcast where the boundaries are blurry. The family tree is more like a pretzel, and the emotional support comes with snacks. I'm your host, and if you're new here, pull up a chair and keep up because today's episode is a masterclass in It's Complicated. The two women sitting across from me are Kat and Sam. Kat is married to Kyle. Sam used to be. They live next door to each other on purpose. The kids move between both houses like it's nothing because to them it is nothing. They share a yard, a therapist, and a medical portal. At various points, they've shared a dog, a cat, and as you heard in the opening, they nearly shared a medical insurance plan. From the outside, it probably does look like a pretzel. From the inside, it's just Tuesday. Today, in episode 15, we're digging into how these lives became so beautifully intertwined and why the traditional labels just don't fit. Kat, Sam, let's get into it. Every blended family has a version of the story where they just tried to do it the normal way. The boundaries, the schedules, the separate everything. And at some point that stops working, or maybe it never did. So when you think back to the beginning of your story, what actually wasn't working before you kind of joined forces and became one?

SPEAKER_02 4:35

I actually think that. So we we did it almost backwards because we did start off as being a very blended family. I mean, think about you and Kyle before I was even in the picture. Kyle came over every day to give Archer a bath and tuck him in, even though he wasn't living with you. Yeah. And at that time, you guys weren't exploring, you know, potentially rekindling or anything like that. Yeah, you were literally still doing day-to-day tasks together. And that was a big deal. Yeah. And even after I came to the picture, that stayed the same. And I mean, I remember Kyle would mow your lawn, change your air filters. Like he did husband stuff for you on a very regular basis. And then we became friends. I mean, that took a little it was a little rocky at first, but it was we became friends and we started vacationing. We we did everything together. And then we had our setback. We had our setback. And that's when we started to experience more of like your normal like boundary. Yeah. Like we would do, I was actually thinking about this yesterday when I was doing some of those TikToks. And one of the ones that I had talked about was exchanging, like when you're exchanging the child for parenting, yeah. Parenting time. And we literally made it so that we never had to exchange Archer in person. How did that? So we had exchange times based off of his school schedule.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Oh, so that way someone dropped off and then a different person picked up or something.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

We were doing a parent pickup. And so our exchange would be that like on the exchange day, the parents week, that parent would pick him up from school. So like there was no interaction.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

None. Wow. Yeah. And so the only time we ever did have any sort of interaction was like if he was sick, yeah. Or you know, there was just something that had to be had to be discussed. We're going on vacation or something like that, and we had to change our days slightly. We did, we were flexible in that sense, still, which is still different than a lot of co-parenting situations because a lot of co-parents are like, no, absolutely not. I'm not changing the scale or by being by, which that is it's not feasible. No, not in real life. But but we did have a period of time, like two years, where we did not talk. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Unless we had to.

unknown 7:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

So what changed your mind? What happened? Who said something? Who was like this ridiculous? Like what changed the dynamic that you had?

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Well, I mean, the tornado, the tornado was a very pivotal moment. We've talked about before the situation with my ex. Um, and then when the tornado happened, I like put my foot down and I was like, no, that's my family, and I need to be there. And I don't care how that impacts the relationship, but I'm going.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

It just shifted your priorities in a really big way.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Because that was that was tragic and monumental and changed so many things to where like I I had the desire to have go back to having more communication and open parenting before. However, um, I feared through your professions of doing so with my relationship at the team. And then when the tornado happened, I was like, No, no, I don't care. It doesn't matter. Yeah, you can do whatever you want, but I need to be there. Um that's where I'm going to be.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

I think the tornado for all of us, one of the the biggest eye-openers, in my opinion, is that we we finally realize that if something happens to our family, it affects Archer, yeah, which is therefore affecting her family. And so even though we have this separate life, like we really don't have a separate life. And so how do we make it so that it is about Archer? Because in that moment, especially, he needed everyone. I mean, everyone plus yes, because he had just lost his brother and he had lost his home. And he lost all of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

And I don't know, my my biggest takeaway honestly was I do not want to live with regrets.

SPEAKER_04 9:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

And had we continued down the path that we were at the time, I absolutely would have had some simply because I didn't have a backbone to stay on my ground and have the family life that I wanted for the kids and everybody else. And I just didn't want regrets. I didn't want to look back on something and be like, you know, if I had held my ground, our lives would have been so much different. Anything can happen in any moment, unexpectedly. And I don't want to have missed opportunities. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

How do you handle the people who can't figure out what box to put you in? We've talked a little bit about this before and different rumors that have circulated. Do you feel that weight of people watching and judging you, or does that just kind of fade in the background for you now? Because this is just so incredibly normal and beautiful and functional.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

I think it bothers you a little more than me. For me personally, if it is something that is very direct, I will absolutely antagonize and be petty. Okay. Is that what you feel? It doesn't impact her, really, for the most part. But like for me, I'm like, you want me to make points. Let me make a big point.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

You do. You get you get pretty, you get worked up over our relationship not being understood.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

And because you want it to be understood, or because you you're like, why are you even the assumptions? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

The assumptions bother me. And um I I don't like people that pass judgment with only portions of information. You see something service level and you're going to make this big acclamation about something. Is acclamation the right word? I don't think it is. Acclamation is when you're getting used to something. I use the wrong word. Um, you make this big, what's the word I'm looking for? I don't know. There's a word.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

Use it in a sentence.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

She can't have it. They they want to proclamation. Yes. Oh, yes, yes, yes. They want to make a proclamation about what it is, like with little known facts, just that looking at something surface level. And I disagree with that because I could do that to you as well. And I'm sure that I can make just as hurtful assumptions about you. However, I won't because that's not fair and it's not right.

SPEAKER_04 11:32

And so, yeah, I antagonize and be petty sometimes. You can be very petty. I'm not though. Okay, maybe I am. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

But we did talk about this like because you can't always pick up on yours.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Very petty in very different ways. Yes, yours is very obvious. Mine is I do not want anybody to look at me and know that I am petty. Right. Other than whoever it's directed to. That person knows. But anybody else on the outside can be like, she's just so nice. She is such a nice person.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Yeah, and I just don't care who knows. I hear that you also share therapists. We do. We adore her as well. She's wonderful. She is so amazing. Like so amazing. Who started going first? Did you show up together or was this a separate? We had started first.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

I did. Well, not not us. You went with Brian. But I we've talked about going together. Together. Yeah. Like it would be, I mean, it'd just be easier to just have everybody in the room.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

She she knows all of us so well in our dynamic. Uh-huh. And so, like, honestly, in some of our sessions, she like smooths out little issues between us because she knows us and our personality ties. And she's heard it from every perspective.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Yeah. So, like, so she also saw Kyle as well. And although she cannot obviously share information between the two of us, if I go to her and I'm like, Sam's driving me crazy because she's doing X, Y, and Z, she will be like, Have you thought about it like this? Or have you? And and makes me, you know, remember you can understand us differently.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

She she slows us down a moment because she does like all of us know, obviously, we see the same therapist. Yeah. However, due to legalities, she cannot openly say that.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

But she knows how to appropriately respond to certain things because she knows all of this. And like, yeah, there's been plenty of times I've gone in and be like, fuck that. And she'll be like, but what is it? What happened? And we'll break it down together. And she'd be like, okay, well, from what you've told me in previous sessions, this is her personality. And this is your personality, which we both know from together. And so how about we we reassess this?

SPEAKER_00 14:11

And she's phenomenal. Yeah, she's really good. Do you ever feel like you're holding back or you're guarded with what you share because you know that she knows the other the other person has also come in and shared their side, or like are you completely open? No, yeah, no, not in the slightest.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

I have seen different therapists throughout the years, and she has honestly been the best one I have ever seen. And I feel comfortable to discuss everything with her and relieving to be able to do that with somebody.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Us sharing a therapist in a lot of ways to me has been eye-opening in the sense of there is no judgment. I think if we saw separate therapists, I would probably be more likely to sugarcoat because I'd be like, well, they don't know Sam. And so I don't want them to get the wrong impression of who you are judgment and handle things differently. Yeah, because if they're passing judgment and they're like, oh, Sam's a bad person, yeah, then what they say to me or how they support me might be very different. Sam is not a bad person. Does she drive me crazy sometimes? Absolutely. But like Stephanie doesn't say, like, oh, like this is a toxic person. You should cut them out of your life.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

No, she is very encouraging and she validates you when you are right. She absolutely does. She'll tell you when you're wrong. And she has no qualms in telling you when you're wrong either. She doesn't say outright you're wrong. No, but she has no qualms in like saying, like, hey, you need to look at this from a different perspective.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

I mean, I feel I don't like it when I know that she thinks I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

I don't like it. You don't like it when anyone thinks you're wrong.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

No, I do not. But I can always tell when she thinks I'm wrong and I'm being too much. And are you are you open to that though? Like, do you recognize I'm open to it from her? Like her.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Yeah. And maybe Kyle. Sometimes you hear it in the moment, like you're able to stop and reflect right then, or you kind of like rerun it, like you think about it.

SPEAKER_02 16:19

The way she like pauses, it's it's like you know, like I I need to actually reflect on this a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

We we've seen her long enough that we know her tells as well. Uh-huh. And so like her pauses definitely when she pulls out her computer, we know what's going on and what's happening next. Like, we know her tells. Yes, as much as she knows ours.

SPEAKER_04 16:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

And she she is not, she's not harsh. She's very understanding. She's the best therapist I've ever had. Yeah. Hands down, I've never felt more comfortable talking to somebody than I do her. Like I can talk to her about everything, um, any situation going on, and I don't feel judged. Yeah, she's wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

How would you describe the ways that therapy has helped you? Does it are you does it just cause you to be reflective, or is there something deeper going on? How could you articulate what it has done for you in terms of healing and moving forward? I think we both have very different takes on that.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

Yeah, we I would say so. Yeah. With this time around, she actually reached out to me after Arglyn had passed and had offered, you know, to sit with me, essentially. And I remember at least my first session, if not my first two sessions, I don't think I said a word outside of like I'm cat. And I remember the first session, I wound on the floor in the fetal position, just crying. I and I I don't think that I said anything. Honestly.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Was she like in a chair beside you? Was she she stayed in a chair? Okay, and she just it was just her presence.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Yeah. And that's all in that moment. That is what I needed. I needed to know that somebody wasn't going to try to make me feel better. Um, somebody wasn't going to because there is no comforting. No, you know, like, sure, you can sit there and pat me on the back and tell me it's gonna be okay, but like, is it?

SPEAKER_00 18:25

And she didn't force you to talk about it and push through, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

And that is something you cross for that's you feel your feelings, but not in a judgmental way, not in a pressure way.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

Well, and her her existence, her big thing with me has been really so we've talked about this, but one of the things with me is I'm I avoid. I when things are happening, the doer, I'm the one who's like, okay, I'm just gonna solve the world's problems instead of dealing with what I'm feeling on the inside. And Stephanie's like, I'm okay with you doing that to an extent. You can do that when it's too big, yeah, but you're gonna come back to it. And she's also the one who's like taught me, like, you need to name this. You need to name that feeling that you're having, and you need to tell me where it's in your body and you need to recognize it. And remember how I had told you, and I was like, this is like the most amazing thing was when she was like, describe it, you know, like the pain in your chest. Like, you know, when you get that tightness, yeah. She was like, What's the texture? How big is it? Is it this big or this big? Yeah. And she, what color is it? That process with me as well.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

And honestly, how like slows everything down to where it doesn't feel like you're being pressured to explain and put words to it. You were just freaking down the impact it has on you, like physically.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

But it's also it is giving you an intentional distraction. She is distracting you because she's forcing you to use your mind and like come up with the words to describe the sensation, the feel, the whatever. Like you're not you're not sucked into the overwhelm at that moment because you're busy trying to put words on the feeling.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

Yeah. Well, and I would say the overwhelm piece is something that we do have in common. We don't deal with it in the same way, but big emotions are very overwhelming for both of us. And so I am well, I guess we both avoid, but again, differently, like because I wanted to do associate. Whereas me, I'm like, I'm gonna dive in and I'm gonna save everybody. And Stephanie has really helped both of us with like, okay, you need some purpose and you need like so for you, it's very much you need to come back into which it's been wonderful about that.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Because like, I didn't realize there's a name to what I was doing. I know that, and like personally, like something that impacts me personally with somebody I care about, I do disassociate when it's there's conflict. And I didn't realize that. And she she like picked up on it. It was your first session.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

She really yes, so she came home and was like, Do you know that I disassociate? And I'm like, Yes, yes, I did. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

And it's like one of my things when there's like a high conflict thing going on, I will find something with corners and count the corners repeatedly. And Stephanie has a picture that sits to the right of her on the wall, and that was what I would focus on when she was bringing up things. And she saw you do that. Yeah, and she saw me doing that, and she's like, Satan, what are you feeling looking at? And I was like, Oh, your picture, and she's like, You remember what I just said?

SPEAKER_00 21:49

No, I don't want to go there.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

I was like, This I I feel overwhelmed right now, and then I like explained to her, she had me explain what I was doing. In that moment of overwhelm, and then she explained to me, she was like, You dissociate, and I do it every day throughout the day, constantly. And I did not realize that anytime I feel mentally overwhelmed with a task, I do it. Um, in a high conflict situation, I didn't if it's high conflict with somebody I don't care about. Yeah, I would go on you. But that's I mean, but that's because you don't care, like there isn't feelings associated with when there are feelings associated, then I I will look like it looks like I'm looking at you where there's a refrigerator behind you, and I can see it's porns, and I will look at you and I'll give you simple responses, but I will be counting those porns. So interesting. And I won't actually be taking in anything you're saying or anything that I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Do you know in the moment now that you're aware of it that you're doing it, or do you still not recognize I'm more aware than I was before, but I don't always catch it right away.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

But the people that are close to me typically realize it before I do and realize that I need some sort of break.

SPEAKER_04 23:05

Yep. So it works out.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

And that is like my learned coping mechanism for everything that stems from my childhood, which Stephanie has helped me narrow down as well because I also tend to click my teeth, which literally irritates me. I get so irritated with myself for doing it because I end up with my jaw hurts. Yeah, I get a headache. But like I click my teeth mostly when I'm in a vehicle. Um, so like there's the little the dashes in the road to separate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

You fixate on it. You want to know a secret about Sam? Yeah, what? She has to listen to music, but it is for a reason. She is trying to prevent you from talking to her so that she can click her teeth. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Do the pattern of the line on the road.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Really?

SPEAKER_01 23:57

I don't like talking in the car because it makes me feel slightly overwhelmed.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

And are you oh is it the noises in the car too? And do you just feel do you feel unsafe in cars?

SPEAKER_01 24:08

To an extent. So again, one of the things that Stephanie helped me work on was I had a lot of stuff happening in childhood that was not ideal. And we did mandatory family abroad trips every Sunday to another town. And those mandatory Sunday drives always resulted in screening matches in a very confined space that was overcrowded with all of us. And so when I'm in the car, I don't like conversations. If so, I like short snippets and I prefer to have the meese spawn a little bit louder so that I can disassociate both car rides and I have to anticipate possible turmoil. Here I am, 35 years old and still.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

I think that's part of why you like to drive with me though, because I will just blab about nothing important. Like you don't have to listen to me. I'm just talking to talk at that point. You could do like talking, and I do.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Yeah. So you become the loud music. I am the loud music.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

You're the she will talk about random things literally does not require a response. No, every now and then. But like she doesn't require responses all the time. She's just talking about whatever pops into her head and she's driving.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

And um I am the radio.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

I'm literally the radio.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

I think now if I tried to require you to participate in the conversation, I get a little agitated. That would be yeah, that would be frustrating for you.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

I get a little agitated because I'm like trying to call myself while reciprocating the conversation. And that's really hard.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Every now and then though, she she can't deal with my talking either, even though I don't require. And she will normally be like, Hey, remember that playlist you were playing the other day? Can you play that? That was there was like a really good song on it. And that's her way of saying, shut up. No, I've definitely done that. I I saw right through it.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

I know. For someone listening who keeps putting off therapy, what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Don't do it just just like just literally just do it. Or I will I will say it is a trial and error thing.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Yeah, not all therapists are treated equal.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Several different therapists. I'm being mental, but whatever. And I've had a lot of not great experiences. However, when you land on the one, it is literally life-changing and so worth it.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

So, what are your green flags in a therapist then? What are you looking for?

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Um I don't know. I've had a lot of therapists that I've seen that want to pass judgment quickly or that want to like jump on board. Like I'm just venting because I I do not do well at confronting my emotions with the people I care about. And so I have a lot of pent-up things to say. And I've had a lot that are like, oh yeah, that person's not good for you, kind of like Kat was saying earlier. And I'm like, no, not cause you to reflect. It's not that they're not good for me. Yeah, like we're different people and we see things differently. However, um, when a therapist puts their bias into the session, that is very damaging to your mental health and the way you perceive things and the way that you address things. My my absolute biggest green flag is somebody that just listens to you. Yeah. That just hears you.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

Well, with Stephanie, but even so my therapist I had in Arizona, which it's crazy because I started seeing her when I was 12 and had experienced, you know, like sexual abuse. And then when I went through my divorce, I went back to her because she was still practicing. And I actually had reached out to her after Arlen had passed away and she doesn't operate in Tennessee. And but I did think that that was crazy. I was like, you're still like you still practice, like you're still practicing and like you're like you're alive because she was she was older when I was yeah, yeah. Her name is Gail, by the way. If you're in Arizona, her name is Gail. She's amazing, amazing. But like that is the biggest thing with therapy for me as well, is I don't think a therapist should be passing judgment or truly giving advice. They should be maybe advising you on like, hey, let's pause and like really think about this, or let's talk this through. That's fine. But like to tell you, hey, here's my advice on how to like fix your life.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Yeah, that's not okay. No, it's not, it can be so detrimental. And like typically they're doing that, and bad advice then like they're they're using their own opinion and it's in their own experiences are coloring that. Yeah, it's a conflict.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

And it removes you from the work of rebuilding because now you're doing what they're telling you to do, and you don't really have a role in that um work. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

When they're doing that, and that should be the goal of therapy is creating skills or learning new skills that aren't going to help you cope. And I mean, I would say Stephanie, for an example, is really good at that, but that should be what people are looking for in a therapist is teach me, teach me so that I can walk away from this. And if something happens a year from now or six months from now, I'm not gonna fall apart again.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

Yes, you have a toolkit that you can reach into.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

If you're seeing a therapist and you don't feel comfortable being completely open, honest, and vulgar the wrong, then it is the wrong person for you. And you can typically typically get that feeling from the first session. If the first session you sit down with this person, you don't feel comfortable or safe or whatever it may be to be fully transparent, it's not the right thing.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Don't go back. And yeah, if it is trial and error, and it can be very frustrating because you just want to feel better, but it is worth it. It is absolutely worth it because it is life-changing. It is, you know, Stephanie has done both of us so much good. She really has. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Yeah. That's good advice. Well, we've talked about how you almost ended up on the same health insurance, and we revisited your neighborly, you know, path path that you were next door neighbors and all of that, and all the shared things that come with that, your shared therapists. We haven't really talked much about the shared pets that have been part of this journey. So I think the dog was the first one, right? What was the first one? Salem was the first one. So walk us through a little bit about how the shared ownership of Salem and Well, you go with Salem and I'll go with Collie because Salem was yours.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

So Salem was the Mother's Day present for me. Kyle did not like cats. Was absolutely adamant that we would never own a cat. And then one Mother's Day, he was like, You want cats, let's get a cat. And I was ecstatic. And so I picked out Salem because I don't know. He just even at that point, he was a Gratchy old man, and he you could see his attitude in his face, and I just loved him. He and so for me, he was such a he was just perfect. I loved him, and then so Kyle and I had Salem, and then I came back home from overseas contracting, and I had Salem. Khan at that time had finalized our divorce and he had his own home, and I had mine. And Kyle's having a really hard time with the quietness of the house when he didn't have Archer. He didn't have a cat meowing and demanding attention and giving him attitude, and he didn't have an unruly child. And so I went over to his house one day. I think it was when I went to go clean it, maybe. I don't know. Oh, yeah, I think it was. I think one of the days I went to go clean his house for him. Because again, weird relationship. It's weird. And he had told me, like previously, how hard a time he was having with quietness. And so, like, as much as I didn't want to give up Salem, I did not want Kyle to be depressed and lonely. And so I left Salem at the house for him to come home to. And so then like Salem was became Kyle's cat, even more so. And then Kyle and Kat were together.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

And so I had Kollie, and I had had Kali from the time she was born, basically. In a previous marriage. This is yeah, this is my second marriage. And we were we lived in Arizona, and a friend of ours had a Rottweiler and an English bulldog, and the English bulldog was a Brindle and got pregnant by the Rottweiler, which was not the plan, but it happened. And I was like, if there's a female Brindle, I want. And like, what are the chances that that would happen? And they were like, Okay, sure. And there was one female Brindle, it was Collie. And so I got Collie at that time, and she's perfect in every way. She's always been perfect. Yes, she has so much attitude as well. She's very spoiled, she's very self-centered, and she's very lazy, which makes her just the most amazing daughter in the world. Because she just all she wants to do is snuggle up with you and sleep lay down to lay down on the couch or in bed all day. Yeah, like no. I mean, she really did. She did. And at the time I worked nights, like overnights at the grocery store. And so I needed a snuggle, you know, dog during the day. And she just was perfect. She was like, Yep, got you. And so I had Collie, and then we moved here. And when I got my divorce, obviously I got to keep Kali because she's my dog. And we were trying to like start to blend the families. So, like we were doing, we called it family sleepover nights. Do you remember that? And so Arlen and Ella and me would go and we would sleep at Kyle's house, or sometimes Kyle and Archer would come and sleep at our house. But we normally went there just because of it was easier for Archer. And so we were starting to do that. And then one time we were like, well, we should probably also start to introduce the pets. And that took a go as well. Um, Holly had Salem in her mouth, like I'm pretty sure like his whole head in her mouth. Oh my gosh. It was really bad. And we thought for sure Salem was a goner. And like Kyle was like, she's gotta go, like now.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Immediately Salem was absolutely his buddy, like they are so bonded.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

Yes, yeah. And so I was a little bit uncomfortable, I will say, just because I I don't I don't think that it is safe when a dog gets aggressive, for children specifically. And so it did make me a little bit uncomfortable. And I was like, I think I'm gonna have to just get rid of her because I just don't know, especially with Archer. He was really young at the time and he was itty bitty, and I was like, I I can't risk it. And you I was not on board with getting rid of her. She was not on board, and so she was like, I will take her. And I was not happy about that because I was like, this defeats what I'm talking about. Like, I'm nervous about Archer. Archer's still gonna be with you, and Polly is good natured, and I need that.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Yeah, yeah, that's fine. She was good natured, she is a nanny dog. She's a thousand percent a nanny dog. It was, I mean, now she's been getting a little breaky. She's nine then, yeah. She's getting old, yeah. But like at the time, she she's she's always been a nanny dog, she's always been very attentive. She has the most patience. The younger the kid is, the more patience.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Yeah, she really does. Was it the cat that maybe just added another sure speculation on? Yeah, yeah. Speculation because so nobody was in the room when it moved in. And knowing Salem's personal personality, Salem likely antagonized. I think maybe I think that's yeah, and she responded to it.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

Again, they have very similar attitudes.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Well, the thing is though, is like we've watched Salem now and Collin now with new pets like joining. And so, like Salem is not really fond. I mean, he's not as bad as Tish, but like he is not fond of any of the animals in our home outside of him. And so, like, he tolerates everybody, he tolerates Bella and Little Brother and Regina and Tish, but like in all reality, like that's I like care for them. Yeah, he doesn't care for anybody. Yeah, sometimes he likes to play with Morticia, but like even that is not, it's like once a day. Yeah. And all of a sudden he's like, all right, like let's grumpy about it. But he does get very grumpy about it. And then when you were living here and we had Collie, we realized it was the other animals that were that was getting her kind of like worked up. She was more than happy to have like the downstairs, and that was Collie's domain. And she was like, it's totally fine. But you came up here, and the other dogs were up here and like in her face and in her space. And then especially when it came to me.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

And Bella, that was ultimately what it was. And that was kind of like a Holly sees cat as her person, and her person.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

So was she getting protective of you? Is that what was happening?

SPEAKER_02 37:42

Or I don't, I think it was more jealousy than Bella is also very much so very attached to me. And so I had two dogs that were like, She's mine, yeah. And and a big one and a small one, yes, yeah, because Holly is much bigger, yeah. We had two scary, but the one, the other, the the second one was the scariest. Paul picked up by her throat.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Oh my gosh. And like she was off the ground and she did not want to release. Wow. And like I was terrified. We were all, oh my god, no, this is so bad. And Bella didn't have a puncture or anything. She was perfectly fine. Polly literally subdued her.

SPEAKER_02 38:23

Yeah. But like all it was, but mid-air. But yeah, so that was because I had she picked up Bella, and then I picked up Polly to try to like get her to let Bella go. And so, like, I'm sitting here like holding Polly and Bella's hanging from her mouth. Oh my god. And we're all just like, oh my god, like what do we do? Because you can't just like rip her out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

Like Polly wasn't trying to shake her, she wasn't trying to do anything. She literally just was just holding her and would not let go. And we were just like, this is different. It was what do you eat? Yeah, yeah. You know, eventually Paul responded and she let go.

SPEAKER_02 39:02

But then we realized at the point, like it wasn't it, because I mean if Kolly wanted to do damage, she wouldn't.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

She's more than capable.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

But there was like literally not a mark, not even, not even like an indent of like punctured from the teeth. Nothing. Yeah, Collie's intentional on how she held her.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

Yeah. Well, and she was making a point. Yeah. Absolutely. She runs this house. Which she doesn't, because this is not her house.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

But yeah, it was when she's here. It was intense.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

So we were very careful about keeping them completely separated after that. We we didn't realize.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

So now where do the two live?

SPEAKER_02 39:43

Salem and so Salem lives here. I mean, he's he's right there. And then my baby.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

Yeah, Collie. Kolly lives next door. She lives next door.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

But I visit and Kolly loves it when you visit. She loves. She really does. She gets very happy. Yeah. When I come over.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

But Kolly is like, I couldn't ask for a better dog. She's a great dog. She really is. Even with a puppy. Yeah. So I did, I was very intentional with when getting another dog to be a puppy that was not going to have like very strong characteristics. Yeah. And like, you know, this is mine.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Yeah, try to be dominant. It's a puppy.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

So that Polly would be more patient and attentive and not reactive, honestly. And she sounded really good with him. She's very tolerant of him. However, there have been a few times where I'm like, yeah, because he is very in your case and high energy. Did not anticipate that. But now he was when we adopted him. She's very tolerant. She is. She is. But she it just with how old she is, like I said, she's nine now and beloved on even more so than when she was here on her. Because I've had her since what she was she three or four? Somewhere in there, three or four. Three or four years ago. Might have been four. It probably would have been four. Yeah. Um yeah, four. So like I've had her for quite some time, and she's always been my best friend. When I'm having a hard day and just want to bedrock, Kali's there for me. Yeah. And Kali will pick up on me not feeling okay before I acknowledge it within myself. Oh wow. Yes. She's super intuitive.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

Yeah. For a dog. She is a thousand percent like a person in there. Yeah. That just can't talk. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

But she's your emotional support animal.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

She absolutely is. Like if I'm not feeling good, she is more persistent than she is any other time that I sit down with her.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

She knows that you need to like touch her and be close to her.

unknown 41:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

She'll make you feel better. She's very insistent when I'm not doing good. Yeah. She's a really good dog.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Yeah. It's I think it all worked out really well with you having Salem. I still love him so much.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

Yeah. That's what's so special is neither one of you really gave up either pet because they're just right here all the time. Yeah. They're which she still has. That's another thing that makes this so special. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

I I will go out on the deck and like talk to Collie. And she loves it. Yeah. And she just like sits there in the yard and she's like looking at me. And I mean that really is what it is. But yeah, she's still very much so my dog.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

And say you're your dog, but be like in my face when I come over here. And like I'm sometimes like stop it because he's very persistent as well. He's very persistent.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

So I know we're getting close to the end here, and there are people out there listening who probably don't have a support system like the two of you have. So if you had to break it down for someone besides what they might look for in a therapist, what should they look for in a person? How how do you become someone's person in the way that you two have? I mean, you've said it. What I say.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

I just like I never left. I just was here. I was available. Yeah. I showed up for you. You did.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

Which is like for me what I need. That's the thing. Because like for me personally, I expect people to either leave or be mean when they get to and what it would get hard. And she might be extremely angry with me. However, um, she made it clear that her door was always open for me. Literally, even when we were fighting, I had her door open. Yeah. Literally. She made sure that I did. I showed up at her house, like we hadn't talked for months. And I showed up at her house one night, just absolutely hysterically upset. And she sat with me and we talked it through. And I think to have somebody that shows up for you that way, if somebody is persistent to be your friend, not in a creepy way. So if they're creepy, like, no, yeah, don't do that. But if they are When you need me, I'm here. I'm not gonna push myself on you, but when you need me, I'm here and they make it known. And yeah, like that is a person for you for sure. But like to know, like if you're actively looking for a person, you need to know what you need out of this. Yeah. You know, yeah, you need to have your expectations, don't accept less. No, if you are prone to bad habits, okay. If somebody with similar bad habits probably should not be your friend, why and they try to be supportive, they're not helping you grow.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

No, they're enabling the your person should be somebody that helps you grow.

SPEAKER_02 44:39

Yeah. But at the end of the day, relationships in general, they are hard and they are complicated and they are not always comfortable. And you should like you should feel like that with somebody who is helping you grow or somebody who is actually bringing value to your life, it it's gonna feel like that sometimes. Yeah, because relationships do. And to me, not saying that you should be looking for the person that makes you uncomfortable, but you have to be willing to sit in those moments.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

If somebody will sit with you in those uncomfortable moments and see it through, even if you have to take a break, like that, that's big. That is huge. It is. And I think like for somebody to have an actual person, that's absolutely a requirement.

SPEAKER_04 45:30

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

So that's the Burnham's. You can put whatever label on it you want, but they're too busy living it to care. I think that's what most people miss. Life doesn't have to fit your expectations to be functional. If it works for them, it's real. Period. This was Friends with Benefits episode 15. Next week, we're doing some spring cleaning on old school parenting advice. A lot of what we were taught doesn't hold water anymore, and we're figuring out the new rules together. See you next time.