16 - Thanks For the Advice. We're Not Taking It.

This isn’t your grandmother’s parenting podcast. In Episode 16, we’re burning the manual. We’re diving into the "unfiltered" reality of being a millennial mom and breaking down all the outdated, toxic, or just plain weird advice we’ve been given. From the "cry it out" debates to the pressure of being a "Pinterest-perfect" household, we’re discussing why we chose the feral, honest route instead. It’s time to talk about the cycles we’re breaking and the "because I said so" strategies we’ve officially retired.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

You are parenting harder than any generation before you, with less grace from people watching. Somebody's always got back in my day ready to go. And look, I get it. Back in their day, the bar was fed and alive by dark. That's the standard that was set for them. We have group chats, we have screen time guilt, we have social media comparison and a highlight reel of every other family doing it better. We didn't raise the bar, the world around us did. Welcome back to Friends of Benefits. In episode 16, we're giving ourselves some grace and some truth. We're calling out the outdated advice that needs to stay in the past, and we're talking about why raising real kids, messy, loud, feral kids, might actually be the healthiest thing you could do. If you're listening to this in your car just to have five minutes of silence, or if you're hiding in the laundry room eating a Snickers bar so you don't have to share, this one's for you. When's the last time someone hit you with a back in my day? What was it? And what was your reaction?

SPEAKER_02 1:05

I'm trying to think of the last time I heard that. I think that I stopped getting advice a really long time ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Yeah, I feel like it was more baby age that people felt obligated much more advice, however, like where I work at a lot of the older generations that come in on a regular basis. And the girls and I do not filter our conversation for any of our patients, which is part of why they keep coming back because it's always entertaining. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Um, but we do get parenting advice from the older generation.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Well, I was gonna say, I'm like, I don't think that people give me parenting advice because I think they know exactly where that's gonna go. How well it's gonna go. I don't take advice from other people. Yeah. I don't, and I don't mean that in a mean way, but like I'm very secure and yeah, I'm very secure in who I am and what I'm doing. And like I don't need permission from anybody.

SPEAKER_03 2:03

Did you ever hear this one when you were a kid? You better stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about. Absolutely. Daily. And what kind of message? You know, we were talking about the benefits of therapy the other day, but like what kind of message that sends to children about emotions and safety, just like shut, or you know, I'll beat you.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Well, so I always have thought about this one as like not just a safety piece, but talk about raising a generation of people who are like talking about my feelings is bad or showing my feelings is bad because we got yelled at.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

The way you handle like when we were kids, especially boys went to allow to cry, even more so. Yeah. Oh god, yeah. And that's that toxic mess you want to be and everything.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Even how insulting it would be like you're acting like a girl, you know, have yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

And so, like that's that's counterproductive. Yeah, it sets them back, and then as they grow up, you you created this mess by saying such things and then teaching them that they cannot express their emotions. And so you know when I was a kid, I it's all different, yeah. Um, even if I was being punished, I was not crying, otherwise, my punishment would become worse. Um, and I've been adamant with my kids that like you know, even if you're frustrated, cry. It's normal to cry, it's an emotion. We have emotions, don't manipulate me with them, yeah. Or try to, yeah, which we have countered. And we are, we address it when it happens. But we by all means, if we need to cry, then cry. That is not if you can voice me because we do practice the whole, like, what are you feeling? Why are you feeling that way? Where's it coming from? Type of thing. After we get a little bit of a calm down, yeah, like, okay, let's address that, you know.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

Or like we can do something with that. Like a closed mouth doesn't get fed. Yeah, yeah. Like that is a very common thing to hear from our I mean, I literally said it about you the other day. It's like closed mouth doesn't get fed.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

You gotta tell me for words, and you like said maybe because like it was sure.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

What did you say? What did you say?

SPEAKER_01 4:29

I don't remember. It was the other day. No, it's too far back.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Okay. Well, clearly it didn't make an impression on me.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Well I would be sad about it.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Yeah, that's definitely why I like let it go. Why would I why would I no like why would I want to remember that part? It's probably meant that I did something wrong. So I don't want to remember that part. I just remembered the part where I gave you good advice and said closed mouth doesn't get fed.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

I'm sure you've also heard, you know, well, back in my day, whenever you know our parents got a switch from the tree or whatever, we turned out fine. Have you heard they turned out fine? Right.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

But did they like that's what I want to know? Did they? Because we find how we open up a discussion with them that were involves the slightest bit of emotion.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

How does that discussion go?

SPEAKER_02 5:26

And how did the discussion go yesterday? I mean, it didn't go. But even like my parents who actually are decently open compared to a lot of parents our their age, they were like, Well, we're gonna go. And I mean they were. I mean, like, they did end up like staying and talking about it, but like I had to follow them outside.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

She literally wants it and like persisted on the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Yeah, I was not letting it go.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yeah, it carried it a lot, but they did try to avoid it for me.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

But I mean, we are in a generation like our generation right now is I mean, this whole movement, I guess is what I would call it, of like cutting off your parents, like like creating those boundaries, what you're going to tolerate and what is you know, you're and I don't really feel like that's ever been like a thing. Yeah. In the past, like you you respect your elders and things like that. It's like that's what we do. And now we're kind of like, no, like if you're gonna be a piece of shit and you're gonna treat me or my children like pieces of shit, like yeah, and that that hasn't been a thing in the past.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

It really hasn't. So setting boundaries and like I think it's a massive change.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Huge. Yeah, I think so too. I mean, did boundaries exist 20 years ago? I don't know. I'm starting to I'm starting to wonder. Because everybody seems to have like a real issue when you set one.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

And we talked too about how necessary therapy can be for a variety of reasons, but that this generation too may feel more comfortable going, kind of unpacking the, I don't know if trauma is always the right word, but your child just spending time unpacking what happened in your childhood and how you might use that experience to then change how you interact or or guide your own children. Um, I don't find that therapy tends to be something that's as common in those older generations either.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

I mean, I remember I brought up um therapy to uh Kyle's mom one time and she shut me down so fast. And I was kind of shocked, honestly, but at the same time not because and I mean, even my own mom, who has a psychology degree, yeah, which I think again I'd like is wild. She said something yesterday too. The really deep, dark secrets are still locked up deep inside of me. You'll never know. Yeah. And I was just like, mom, you have a psychology degree. Like, what's that doing to you? Like literally today. Yesterday. Literally yesterday. But we are in this era of like therapy is becoming more common. And I've lost time. And well, and it's something that you do like just because, or you don't necessarily have to have something horrid happen to you. Right. Like nobody's gonna look at you and be like, why are you in therapy? Like nobody's gonna ask that, nobody cares.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

And sometimes that's what gets people to therapy for the first time is something horrible has happened.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

But in other cases, people are going to just to just build to build their toolbox, like we were talking about. And so that's where I think we we are learning these coping skills and these like how do we unpack things. And so now we're doing that with our children. Right. And it's creating like a totally different relationship and life.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

And maybe another layer here, you know, when we look at some of those older generations where you didn't have so many working moms who are working full-time jobs and parenting full-time, and you know, now we have the social media that I mentioned earlier, like all of that too. We don't have the space to just process life the way some of those other generations did. And that and the therapy piece is helping this new generation of women too, figure out like how do we how do we carry this incredible load and still show up for ourselves and other people?

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Yeah. I think there's a bourbon, I mean, excuse me, with every generation. I mean, some people don't choose to follow that pattern, teach their own. However, like, you know, some some people grow up in a not great situation and they realize that and they want to do better and give better to their families and like moving forward. And that is progression. And um no matter how hard you want to fight it, that is evolution and everything else is we move forward to better things or to simplify things, or some work the best, but you know, yeah, the the whole term of breaking generational verses. Yeah, it's a thing. Yeah, you know, like I want to do better for my kids than what I had. I grew up kind of rough, and I don't want my kids to feel the way I did. Whereas like my parents, they my mother grew up really rough. Yeah, and in her mind, she did better than what she had. Right. Yeah, it doesn't necessarily excuse everything, but she did better for me than what she had. Right. So, like there's always progression, and where we're at now is more of a an emotional understanding and how to communicate better with our children without you know it just being my way my way.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Yes, to an extent that is necessary. However, you know, communication is with all that, and to have open communication with your keys opens up or with your kids opens up so much more communication and surprise and everything else. And I think that's absolutely necessary. Like we you and Ella communicate way more than I'm sure your mom and you did.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

So I was actually just like while you were talking, I was like thinking about this because my experience with my mom growing up was different. And like, don't get me wrong, like there's definitely generation generational curses that we are working like through breaking. Although in my circumstance, like I'm working on breaking those with my mom, which is different than a lot of people's experience. But I was like trying to think, I was like, why was my mom like that? Because like that whole comparison of, oh, well, my parents did it to me. And so like I maybe I did it wrong, but it wasn't as bad. Like, so makes it okay. Which it's not. No, it is not. But like my mom wasn't like that. And I don't know. I mean, I'm sure, I mean, she's got a psychology degree, I'm sure she could figure it out. But I'm sure that part of that is like my mom was really the first working mom in the family. Like my grandmother wasn't working. I mean, she worked when she got older, but when she was younger, she didn't. And yeah. And I think my mom couldn't compare the life she was giving me and my sister and my brother, because it was like there was nothing to compare it to. So she couldn't be like, oh, I'm giving you something better or worse because it's different.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

And that actually is really powerful if you think about it, because instead of looking at it as, well, I'm not treating you as bad, like that doesn't mean you're treating me good either.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

And so my mom kind of paved her own way. She did. And she did a good job overall. I mean you turned out right. I like to think so.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

I've been a lot of work with that. I I don't have the the, you know, I don't get any better than what I mentality growing up. And it wasn't always great. Yeah, it was however it doesn't mean it's right, yeah. And generational improvements. Whereas like for me, I will never be like you know, better than I won't do that. I won't put that on my kids. No, I will encourage them to appreciate what they had. And you know, I don't think ungrateful.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Yeah, you're no, ungrateful is not good.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

Yeah, but but it's almost kind of like a lazy way, maybe not lazy, but it yeah, to say like, well, at least you didn't have it as bad as I did, that still doesn't mean they're being reflective and intentional or you're holding, you know, it's just yeah. I mean, but it's also very invalidating.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Yes, yes. I mean, if if a parent is saying that to their child, they're basically like, get over it. Yeah, suck it up. Not that bad. Yeah. I mean, it's almost going back to the whole idea of like, why are you crying? Yeah, crying, it's not that bad. Yeah. And like it is, it is more like addressing, and it's totally invalid.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Regardless of situational changes between generations and how things are addressed, it doesn't change the fact that kids go through so many different changes, puberty, and dealing with the things that we didn't have to deal with when we were in kids because everything's changed so much. And so what they're experiencing, experiencing is absolutely valid. And yeah, they're really having emotions still. Whether they have it better than you did or not, there's still big emotions tied into all of that, and feelings and adaptations.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

And well, I think at I mean, at least every once in a while we've all had to remind each other of like, hey, like back off of them for a second. Cause like you can't we can't compare what like Ella is going through. Yeah. When I was Ella's age, I didn't have a phone. Yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah. No, I don't think I even had a phone. And so the things that she's experiencing and that access that people have to her, yeah, it's totally different. And so no, we don't know. We do not. And and so, like when I mean, I think all of us have some, we should just do this because that's how we we were we were handled when we were younger. And it's like, well, wait a second, hold on, let's pause because like that's not the same scenario.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Right. And that's at all. Part of the beautiful thing with like our family is that like, yeah, we we keep each other in check that always. Oh god, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

So it's also not just the experiences and realities of what life as a child is like now versus what life as a child was like for us, but also parenting, the way, you know, the thing, the pressures and technology and stuff that exists for parents now is very different than from parents then too. And it's easy to feel judged as a parent because our like peers also have, you know, incredible access to us as parents as well. Everything is just kind of out in the open. So, you know, are there times that you feel judged as a parent in a way that your parents never would have been judged for because people didn't have that kind of access to them?

SPEAKER_02 16:40

I would say absolutely. I mean, I I'm trying to remember who I was talking to, but just recently, like in the last, oh, I do remember who I was talking to. It was somebody at wrestling, but like literally like a week ago, they they were asking me about like what it was like when my kids were little because they have a smaller kid than me. And before I even answered them, I was like, you should not compare your child to anybody else's child because every experience is different. I was like, even having, and we talked about this with my mom, even having two kids with the same exact parents in the same exact home can have a very different experience because they're getting a different version. Yeah, they're parents as like you're growing up and you're learning even as a mom.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Yeah, suffered between the children. There's a different version. Yeah. From the first time you have a child, what's it like when you have your first one? You're waiting. Yeah, you are flying by the seat of your pants. And then you have yours, like, oh god. No, you don't. No, it's totally different.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Yeah, it's a different now. You got two. Yeah. Well, and then you're a different person than you were. I don't know about anybody else necessarily, but I don't know anybody who has two kids that had like two kids that were similar. No, minor. I don't know what it is, but when you have two kids, they it's like a requirement. They have to be polar opposites. And it's too, I'm sure, to ensure us that remind us that we have we have no idea what we're doing. Yeah, be humble. Yeah, just just calm down. But no, I mean, like, and so I remember having this conversation, and I I that was the first thing I said. And she was talking, and the reason she was asking me was because she's going to like mommy and me groups, and she's getting input from other people. And I'm just like, Yeah. Like, don't listen to them. Don't listen to them. They might not know. And she's, you know, she's she's a breastfeeding mom versus a formula mom. And, you know, there's the C-section mom versus the the natural, the natural, you know, or medication versus not medication. Like there's so many differences and variances, even I mean, that's just infant stage. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:02

And so many things that go into why you choose the path you choose or or why a path is is put upon you, you know, like sometimes you don't have a choice in the C-section. That's not necessarily something you go in and say, I I want to deliver via C-section.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

You know So when I had my babies, I had C-sections, you had C-sections. I'm sure you have had similar conversations, but when that was something that like celebrities were doing when we had kids was they were going in and having C-sections because it was like easier on their bodies, supposedly, which turns out to be a total. But so I remember people telling me that it was the lazy way out. Wow. Did you know who yet that? No, I didn't. Oh my god. Yeah. Like after and I was like, I almost died. Like I had an emergency C-section with Ella. And again, back then, having they they have a name for it, a V back. Yeah. Which what? I didn't know that was a thing. So, like once you had a C-section, you always had C-section. So I didn't have a choice with me.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

And like apparently now it's like I did have a choice with Debian because straight and was more medical. It wasn't an emergency one like yours, but uh, because the just my chies, yeah. They told I had a scheduled C-section, but I really was trying to avoid it. I had acupuncture and stuff. I was like, I'm not gonna have a C-section, but I did. And then with Debian, I was like, I really don't want to have a C-section. And I wasn't, it wasn't medically necessary at that time. And there was, you know, the the V back or whatever. I was like, that's how I want to do it. And I had the whole birth plan and all that kind of stuff. Um, but I was in labor with him for 21 hours and I was only three centimeters. Like my body, I was so tired and my back was killing me. And like I I couldn't, I couldn't do it any longer. And so, you know, other women go in and they have the baby within three hours. That's entirely different than being in active labor for 21 hours and knowing that you're only three centimeters.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

I was like, Do not even are you one of those? Yes, she is, and she can go sit in the corner by herself. Oh, it's so unfair. It's just the way my first one that I felt everything.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

If that makes me feel better, not really. It doesn't. It was extraordinarily painful.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

Yeah, I'm sure. But it all is yeah, but I mean, that's not anything, that's not necessarily a result of anything you did that we didn't do.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

No, you know, right.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

But for people to then be like, well, I did it like this, and you should I did it with no medication.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

Yeah, I gave birth in Watcher. I delivered my own child. I actually know somebody who delivered their own child. My sister did. In fact, it just popped out of her. I think that is the craziest, like it is you didn't like the baby came out and I caught it in my hand. Oh my god. Yeah. Can you imagine? Oh my god. It makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Honestly. But no, like everybody has their own experience because like our chemistry is different. Our biology is different. Our genetic makeup is different. Our bodies are built and shaped differently. Our tendencies are different. We're predisposed to different things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Well, and then and then let's add in learned behaviors on top of that.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

So it's complicated.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Like, I don't think anybody has any rights past judgment or push their opinions on that because it's different for everyone. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

So what do you think about the influence that social media has had on us as parents? Do you think we're better parents as a result of social media? Are we more anxious? Is it both?

SPEAKER_02 22:50

I think anxious is a really like way, good way of putting it. But I would say having access to a lot of information, I don't say all the information, but a lot of information is helpful if you know what to do with it. Because if you are a very anxious person and you read one thing and then you don't look into it further, that could be very debilitating as a parent. But if you, you know, see something and you're like, that's making me think, or, you know, I want to look more into it, like I will, you know, me, I will go and I'll look at every study that was done before I make a decision on whether or not this is like an accurate thing. But I I would say it's I mean it hasn't made it worse.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

I think social media um enhances anxiety and people across the board. Yes. Because you have so many people that like post or blog or whatever picture perfect lives. And so like the average person is going to look at that and be like, I'm not living up to that. And so you put more pressure on yourself, and so then you feel more down about yourself, which affects everything in your life. I I think it's not that healthy realistically to have all of that.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

I mean, if you're looking at social media and you're using that as your barometer, you have bigger problems. I mean, probably however, how much is social media taken over everything? I mean, so here's my thought with that, because I know that you don't really like social media that much. And and honestly, like Kyle really doesn't, Brian doesn't. And I don't understand all of it, but I I like it just fine. But like it's not going away. And so we have to learn how do we function in this world with it.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

We've already deterred I'm gonna be the current woman's intermediate.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

But it's definitely gonna happen. It's gonna be the portion. I don't like it when people I mean, doesn't your porch sign say go away?

SPEAKER_01 25:01

It used to, I took that one down.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

But if if if somebody parks in front of her house, she will sit out there until they move.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

One of our friends actually parked in her the last one point. And I didn't recognize their vehicle. And so I sat there and stared at her, yeah. I could see her. I sat there and stared at her until finally she got out and she's like, Am I upsetting a little bit? And I was like, Well, now that who knows? Yeah, no, you're fine. Yeah, that's very great. Unacceptable. I don't think this is that is not really.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

So the the you know, like the side yards, yeah, in so like the like it's it's small, right? And so you're sharing the two side yards with your neighbor, and so like only one car fits in front of the two side yards, and so like technically speaking, your neighbor has half as much right to be parked in that spot. And when her neighbor moved in, that they parked there like all the time, and it drove her freaking bonkers.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

They parked past the halfway point, they did.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

That's what I'm saying. How are they supposed they can't park at the halfway point? That's not enough room, they're gonna block their own driveway. I would have oh my god, absolutely. And I explained. I'm pretty positive she stared at them enough. They don't park there anymore. Yeah, I don't know where they park, but they don't park there anymore. They do not know.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

But all things said aside, the social media has a huge impact. And like I've I've been guilty of comparing myself to other people, and my biggest like realization factor was somebody that I personally knew is like posting all these videos and pictures about their picture perfect live. And I was like, that's beautiful. However, I know them personally, I know that's not their life actually looks like. And so when you follow, like especially a lot of the yeah, like you see that, and like in all reality, that's not their action. Yeah, yeah. It's just a little snippet. It's a snippet of them showing you the good time.

SPEAKER_03 27:08

Yeah, it's it's that's their best take. Yeah. And we what we see in ours is all the behind the scenes and everything that's happening in reality, or even if it's them, what's happening in reality. And that's not a fair if if you're if you're getting into that for the comparison, that's not a fair comparison. That was the best take.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

No. Well, I think it's it's always different. And like if somebody gets fixating on those things, which like I said, I've been guilty of, which is part of why I don't like social media very much. Like you're setting yourself up for failure.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

Yes. And I think again, where it comes down to like we have to learn like what is healthy behaviors with social media. And so, I mean, I'm not affected by social media at the same like level, but I will say doing this, it has started to impact me more than it ever has in the past because I'm front and center and it is it's a lot. I mean, it really is.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Yeah, yeah. And I intentionally don't read comments. Yeah. No, it's great comments. However, when the negative judgmental ones come through, I don't handle those well because like it's hurtful. I mean, it's hurtful, but like who is somebody else to judge when they're not walking through my shoes?

SPEAKER_03 28:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Yeah, and so like I I I realized I can't read those, so I'm gonna leave the comments to you two. Yeah. Because I can't handle them.

SPEAKER_03 28:36

It's easy for someone to sit behind a computer and just type off some kind of mean message just to get a rise. Like that's that's kind of messed up too.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Our generation is having a hard time with the generation prior. Cause I will say, generation prior and the generation prior to then was super judgy.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

Yeah. Yeah. They're super judgmental. Like, so sometimes, you know, you you just have a rough week and you reach a point where you're like, I can't run this house the way I normally run it. Talk a little bit about like the good enough parenting, because we can't always be operating on all cylinders. So, like, are there times when you take shortcuts or you give something up? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_02 29:20

I'm waiting. I'm like, why are you looking at me?

SPEAKER_03 29:24

Because I'm I mean you do have a you have a really tight schedule and high standards. And I do.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

I do. And I I will, and I and I'm guilty of this, and it's not good. Like, I don't recommend it, but like I will let things go for me long before I let anything go for anybody else in the family. Like, what do you mean? So, like, if if I have to choose between like my self-care versus making sure that the house is clean or making sure that there's meals, you know, of it like tonight. I I had to order dinner because we're recording and I don't have time to cook. Yeah. And I honestly I needed to go to the grocery store today, and I didn't have time to do that either. And like it bothers me that I don't have a hot meal waiting for my husband when he gets home.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

She is very much a caretaker and making sure that everything is at least put together here, also in MCD. I mean, and so yeah, there's that.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

But you did take a shortcut, like you knew you wouldn't be able to cook him a hot meal, but you still ordered something. So, like that was your shortcut. That is really well. Obviously, she's not like proud. No, it bothers her.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

Well, and that's like that. That's actually a really good way of putting it as proud because I think I'm I'm proud of who I am. I'm proud of how I take care of my family and how I show up for my family. That is like part of who I am. And so when I don't, it feels like I have failed in some way.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

And I don't like that.

unknown 30:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

That's fair. And for me, I struggle a lot with different things. Um, this past year has been really rough for me. But so my my drawers, dishes, laundry get put off. Yeah. However, I'll make sure everybody's fed. Somehow, or some way everybody gets fed. I will make sure my husband is watching me so that I'll go. But he knows laundry gets done. If he if it wasn't for him doing that, I would at least have a load in the dryer that I have to redry five times so it's not re bulled. Um I will make sure everybody else has their necessities and feels taken care of, whether I'm letting myself go and letting my chores go a little bit beyond what I should, and then I make sure everybody has what they need at the very least.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

The last couple of weeks, like we've been, so like my cleaning day is Saturday. And like everybody, if you know me at all, you know Saturday is my cleaning day, and I'm not doing anything outside of cleaning. She's turning to but thank you for letting the world know.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

I'm just saying, like I know how to know it's how I come over.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

Yeah, that is true.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Um I can throw my finger cleaning.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

No, but like, so that is that is like I am very rigid about that. And so the last couple of weeks, we've had tournaments back to back, we've had people coming into town, we've had all these things happening. And so, like, I knew I would not get too clean on Saturday. And I had to like work myself up to that. Like, I had to tell myself, like a month ago, okay, Kat, like you know, you know, this tournament's coming up, and you are not gonna be able to clean on Saturday. And so, like, what are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_00 32:50

What what did you do?

SPEAKER_02 32:52

Well, I cleaned on Friday. Yeah, but I didn't do as much cleaning because I don't have I don't have as much I don't have as much time. Okay, so you still, yeah. So I did take some shortcuts and but like but I like I had to like prepare myself for the Saturday that was coming up that I wouldn't be able to clean.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

That's ridiculous. What is wrong with me? It it is a bit much.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

I'm probably not gonna change. You should work through this with Stephanie.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

I I don't think that Stephanie could even change that. It's it's not necessarily a bad thing. No, it's been ingrained in you for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Situations that made it like yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

And like moving forward, it's kind of like a code way to make you feel better to have it done.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

Yeah, you know, sometimes I'll leave dishes in the sink, like on purpose.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

Yeah, so do so do most people.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

Um and then has a C D as well. You know, yeah. So then he'll say something and then it just like reiterates. I'm like, see, see, this is why. This is why I have to be clean because it's a problem. Clearly, it's a problem necessarily for him, but like, but he does say something and then it just you know gets me going all over. Stop by my house and you'll find that dishes in the sink are are normal. So this is the part that I think is interesting is when I go to other people's houses, it doesn't bother you, it doesn't bother me. Do you notice it though? I'll notice, yes, yeah. Um, and I have realized by going to people's houses that my level of cleanliness is probably excessive because there is a lot more people that are not like me.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

I don't really have the way well the way she talked about her her dumping, what was it, her dumping basket or whatever, but really it was just an organized system of playing the bathroom.

SPEAKER_04 34:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

You know what?

SPEAKER_02 34:56

All I'm saying is I sit in other people's houses and they can be what I would consider dirty. And it's not like I'm gonna like sit on the edge of the couch. However, there have been people's houses that are really, really dirty that I do sit on the edge of the couch. Yeah, she knows who I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

I I mean, there's definitely a a point at which like it's not just letting things go a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

It's yeah, but like gross. But like that doesn't bother me elsewhere. Yeah, but I can't, I can't live like that. I cannot live like that. She I know, like Sanders. Social media doesn't make me anxious, but not having the dishes done does.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

There's a reason for that, and we know that reason. Yeah, and yeah, but like she'll come over to my house and like I'm not as kept up as she is. My house is by no means sturdy, but it's just it gets disorganized, and like she can typically tell where I'm at mentally at the level of disorganization. Yeah. And if I let it go, probably more than a week and a half to two weeks. She's over there or the kids are over there being housed.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

I don't like to do too much cleaning because then that makes her feel bad. But just like a little bit of like if I can tidy, if I could tidy her kitchen. And that is a big one for me.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

I don't like my kitchen being messy. Yeah, cover it if I'm having a hard time. That is the first place to get messy. And so, like, she's she's helped me out with that many times. Because it does help me, and she likes it too. I like to help you feel better. Yeah, I appreciate it. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_03 36:33

You know what I think is really interesting though, is that both of you talked about your shortcuts, but the shortcuts still involve taking care of other people. Like the shortcut was ordering meals for your family versus just not cooking at all. And like I wanted to also ask, like, as you're looking for those shortcuts to still take care of other people and still show up, what are you sacrificing for yourself in all of that? Because those shortcuts didn't really it it still put you in a position to take care of other people. So, like, what are you missing out on? What are you sacrificing for yourself?

SPEAKER_02 37:15

I was like, right now I feel very attacked, Christine.

SPEAKER_03 37:19

I just wonder if you even noticed it though, like because we because we're all moms. And so like we're constantly forgetting about ourselves. So, like, what what are you not getting as you're still like today?

SPEAKER_02 37:32

I really, really, really needed to go get my nails done. I needed to. They're really outgrown. And I don't have time. Yeah. Because I was busy doing other things for other people. I will say, probably like right now, in this stage, this doing this is like this fills my cup.

SPEAKER_03 37:53

Yeah. Like it's like therapy.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

It is, and but not only that, like I'm spending time with my two favorite scalpels, and that makes me happy. And so, like today, I had a shortcut, didn't cook dinner. No that you could do this. I see. Because in all reality, like I was running super, super late. Like my hair was what when you got here. Yeah, you know, and like that's not like me. I am normally the one who's prepared, like overly prepared, and that wasn't today.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

How do you feel? I mean, right now I feel really good. I like hanging out with you guys.

SPEAKER_04 38:35

So much.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

It is like what are you missing? What what do you sacrifice for yourself to still show up for everyone else? Self-care. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Yeah, my self-care is like the first thing that's out the window. And um I just I had a point where I'm like, it is what it is. Everyone else is taken care of, everybody else is still in bed, and you know, tidy things up. Yeah, I was somewhat productive. However, like my personal care is the first thing that's out the window to make sure everyone else is saying, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

But you did some personal care today. You did, and that like that's gotta feel that's gotta feel pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 39:14

I I think feel and again, it was it was for this moment too. Like there was some self-care going on before the episode started. And yeah. And I did get makeup for two days.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

And I put makeup on today. Yeah. And you know, felt nice.

SPEAKER_03 39:31

Um here's a question. When you were kids, way back in the 1900s, did you have unstructured time as a kid? Or was it like really scheduled and planned out? Like you do for kids now. You have to be home when the streetlights come on.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Exactly, exactly. So that that was that was my life. Yeah, it was when the when the streetlights came on. That's when we had to come home. I mean, you lived in the woods. So did you even have streetlights?

SPEAKER_00 39:58

I I didn't have any woods. When you were little, you were you weren't in the woods in in Washington?

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Washington is not full of just woods. I mean, it's just because my family had tree service does not mean that I lived in the woods.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

Okay, well, were there streetlights?

SPEAKER_01 40:15

There were streetlights.

SPEAKER_02 40:17

When did you have to go home?

SPEAKER_01 40:18

It depended on the way.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

With, you know, you had like I think my mom, I think my mom might have been like one of the only like working moms on our at least with like our immediate neighbors. And so a lot of the moms like all kind of they would take turns like checking on all of us kids playing outside. But like we played in the street. Yeah, we I don't think I wore shoes outside of like going to school ever. We would from the hose. I drank from the hose. I think hose water is tasty, actually. I've heard that that's like a metal. Yeah, I like to do it. I think it's yummy. I probably still think it's yummy. I haven't tried hose water in a while. Maybe I should do it yet. And the beacon would be, but I also did have like limits. So where I lived, if you've ever been to Phoenix, like it's everything's a grid. So it's very like it's kind of like that too. Yes, yeah, and so it's like you can't pass this street and can't pass this street, uh, you know, and that's how you knew. And so I wasn't allowed to cross, I remember 75th Avenue. And then the furthest I could go from the house the other direction was we had a park at the end of the straw. And so I could go to the park, but I couldn't go from them. And yeah, that was like the biggest limitation I think I had. I did have to be home with my sister though. Like that was like the big thing. I always had to have my sister with me because my mom did work. And when we were really young, she worked kind of funky hours. And then even afterwards, it was Pat who was home with us. And so like I always had to have Charlotte with me.

SPEAKER_03 41:57

We both my parents have the ability to do one of those really loud whistles where they like put their fingers in their mouth and it, you know what I'm talking about? It's like really high pitched. So we had to be just close enough that we could hear the whistle. Usually it was also like when the street lights came on, you know, when it was starting to get dark or whatever. Also, you had to be able to hear that whistle because if they whistled, it was time to come out. And if you didn't hear the whistle, better hauls to get there.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

If you didn't hear the whistle, oh, you'd be in big trouble.

SPEAKER_03 42:25

Did you ever not hear the whistle? Oh no, no. I always heard the whistle. Roll follower. Well, I mean, there were consequences. But then I compare that to like our kids now, and like we have baseball and we have wrestling and we have soccer and we have all of these activities. And I get really worked up when it gets closer to the summer because my husband and I both work. And so, you know, I I just I'm not okay with leaving my kids alone during the summer. So then it's like all the summer camps that I'm looking into for that. And I just don't remember being that scheduled for anything as a kid. I mean, I I did ballet when I was little, but I don't remember other things. Like every season didn't necessarily have like something we were signed up for.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

Yeah, I didn't get to do a lot of that stuff until I was in high school. Um, I think it was more of affordability than anything else.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

I wonder, like, or maybe there weren't as many activities.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Also, we'll say, I do think that is one thing. Like our parents didn't talk to us about like money. Um, but like like we will tell the kids straight up, like, we can't afford that right now, or we can't afford that, or or I don't want to pay that much for it. You know, it might be something like that. But um, I would definitely say I I don't think I did anything till high school. I did do that. It was really cool. But they don't even do that anymore, really. Yeah. Like the the summer programs aren't as, I don't know, fine as they used to be. I don't know. I'm definitely blessed to work from home and I don't have to worry about that. That's okay. Yeah. Yeah. But I I would feel the same way if they were left home all day to their own devices. And I mean, Drayton would probably like tie Davian up and leave him in a closet or something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

I'm not sure who would reach havoc on the other.

SPEAKER_02 44:24

I was like honestly. It might be Drayton. I don't know. It could be. It could be. Because Davian is a spitfire.

SPEAKER_03 44:33

He is. Is there anything from how either of you were raised that you've kept on purpose? That you, you know, something that actually held up in some of that upbringing?

SPEAKER_00 44:45

No. I can't think of anything, honestly. Really? Just completely different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

Um I can't think of anything. Honestly. I would say the only the only thing I was very close to my mom growing up. And even like, yes, we we fought and and all the things that happened between a mom and their daughter. But my mom and I were always really close up until you know the last couple of years have been rough. But and I I feel like that's something that I've always tried to have with Ella is that like close bond. I think I do it differently. Yeah. I think I do it very different than how she did. But like the want for that closeness is their from.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

I would say.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

But outside of that, I can't think of anything.

SPEAKER_03 45:40

What do you guys want your kids to say about how you raised them? What's what what are you going for?

SPEAKER_01 45:47

I want my kids to know that they're always saved at me. I want my kids to know that I love them no matter what. I want them to know that they're safe and free to be themselves and I don't always judge them. They're they're always left.

SPEAKER_03 46:02

That's great. Well, that's a wrap on episode 16. And if you've gotten to the end of this and felt even a little bit seen, that's what we're here for. Parenting is hard enough without carrying around advice that was never that great to begin with. So go easy on yourself this week. Let your kid be a little bored, let the baseboards be dusty, order the pizza. None of that makes you a bad parent. It makes you a real real one. Take whatever was useful from today and leave the rest. That's all we ever ask. Share the episode if it resonated. Drop us a review if you're feeling generous. And real quick before we go, next week is the Mother's Day episode. And, you know, we love our kids. We love the drawings. We love the handprints. We love all of it. But somewhere between the macaroni necklace and the grocery store flowers, the actual conversation about what moms need got lost. What we're carrying, what we're not saying, what we've been waiting for somebody to just acknowledge. So that's next week. Thanks for being here for real. See you next time.