20 - Ella Bella Ballerina Fairy Princess

We planned a birthday episode for Ella turning fifteen. We had the outline, the questions, the whole thing was ready. Then one question stopped everything — what are you excited about? What do you want in this next chapter? — and there was nothing. Because everything she'd want to look forward to, she'd want to share with her brother Arlan. And Arlan isn't here.

So instead of pushing through it, we stopped. This episode is just Kat and Kristina — talking about a girl who was a miracle from the beginning, who carries more than most people see, and who is growing up with grief sitting right next to every milestone. We talk about what she carries, what it looks like to show up for your kid when you're also falling apart, and what you hope she knows even when you can't find the words to say it out loud.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

This is not the episode we planned. We had an outline, we had questions, we had the whole thing ready. And then we didn't use any of it because that's the thing about real life. It doesn't care about your outline. We were supposed to be celebrating Ella turning 15, and somewhere in the middle of recording, I asked her what she was excited about. Like, you're turning 15. What do you want in this next chapter? What are you looking forward to? And there was nothing because everything she'd look forward to, she'd want to share with Arlen, and he's not here. So we made a call, we stopped. We didn't push through it, we didn't pretend, we just stopped. And then we decided to sit down together, just the two of us, and start talking about her, about who she is, where she came from, what she carries. Welcome back to Friends of Benefits. This is that conversation. When did you first feel it this year that this birthday wasn't gonna feel light?

SPEAKER_03 0:52

I would have to say probably right around when we started talking about Ella turning 15. Because it's a big number. Yeah. And you know, we're excited. And I was I remember talking, I was like, Do you want a Kincanieta? And she's like, We're not Spanish mom. And I was just like, but it's a big deal, it's 15. And which made me realize like Arlen would be 13, which is also a really big deal. And when that dawned on me, I was like, Oh, it's gonna start dawning on everybody else. Yeah, and 13 is a big deal. Yeah, and so I actually that day went into my calendar and I like blocked off my week, got coverage at work, and then I kind of just waited until other people started kind of rolling in along with me on knowing that this was gonna be a heavy year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

How does it feel when joy and grief land in the same week like that or on the same timeline?

SPEAKER_03 1:57

That is a tough one, and it has been a really hard thing, I think, for all of us to learn that grief and joy can exist at the same time. You can be sad and happy, I can be crying and then laughing, and there's nothing wrong with that. Being happy doesn't mean I'm not grieving, and grieving doesn't mean I'm not happy. And just coming to that realization over the last couple of years has been hard. Yeah, but it is eye-opening because it applies in so many other ways as well, because it's not just about grief and joy, but like I can be mad at somebody but still love them. Yeah, you know, I can feel frustrated but still engaged. Yeah. And I think for some reason as people, we just feel like, well, if you're not this, then you're that.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Yeah, it has to be one or the other.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Yeah, and that's not true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

How do you decide in the moment, okay, we're pivoting? Like it this is something that has to be dealt with right now. How do you know when that moment is? What do you what do you do when you know all your well-laid plans just don't just don't work?

SPEAKER_03 3:11

You were here, you saw it. I mean, literally, I turned to Ella and was like, what's going on?

SPEAKER_02 3:18

And you just kind of face it.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Yeah. And she, you know, said her piece and she crawled right into my lap and cried. And like, sometimes that's what you need to do. But to me, I mean, you have to face it.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

If we bury it and bury it and bury it, it's going to come out. Yep. It's gonna come out sooner or later. And maybe in less healthy ways, yeah. Yeah. And so if you don't face it right away, it's just gonna make it worse. And I really do believe that.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

And so have you always been like that, or or is it different now that you have such big grief, now you realize like like you can't escape this kind of grief. So are you better at dealing with it now than you ever used to be, or have you always been pretty good at dealing?

SPEAKER_03 4:06

I I feel like I've always been pretty good at like let's attack the issue, like full front, you know, at full force, I should say, without I don't know, like I I don't want to pause. I I just wanna, I just I do want to feel better. And so part of that means like you have to deal with your shit.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

And um, I will say grieving ten times even more because you can't ignore it. Like, I I mean, I recall many times that first year being on a phone screen with a stranger and we're talking about them getting a new job. Yeah, and I would break down crying. And like there's nothing you can do. Yeah, like literally nothing you can do because it just hits you that hard and that.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

You can't put it away and deal with it later.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

Yeah. And so And that's kind of what happened to Ella.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Like, that is exactly what happened. It hit hard and fast. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:56

Because she was fine, yeah, and then she wasn't. Yep. And I don't, I'm not, it's kind of crazy like that.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

The question that you asked is what triggered her, but like But that might have been when she was able to articulate what was going on, is that she she didn't know how to be happy and and look forward to the things that were coming because he wasn't here to share it with her, and that's that's when it hit. Yeah. And maybe it had been kind of bubbling under the surface a little bit, but she hadn't figured out what it was.

SPEAKER_03 5:25

Yeah, and I would say definitely. Um, Ella is she carries way more than a 15-year-old girl should. And I will say part of you know being older, like she feels like she has to carry the weight of other people. Yeah. And even in the family. Yeah. And sometimes it's too big. Yeah. And it's definitely too big to carry alone.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

Is there is there guilt in those emotions? Like, do you feel like you're taking away from her birthday by making space for the grief? Or you know, does it just feel normal and healthy?

SPEAKER_03 6:00

I think for us it feels normal and healthy. And in fact, I actually feel like if we didn't make space for the grief, like that would actually make us feel a little bit more guilty than not, because it's almost like ignoring the fact that he's not here.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:17

And like that, that feels really yucky. Yeah. And so I I think I think making the space is actually what's preventing us from having guilt associated with it. But I think anybody who's grieved, you know, a loss, probably specifically like the loss of a child, you do feel guilt. It's just it's natural that you're like, what could I have done? Because as a parent, especially, and then also for Ella as an older sibling, like our job, like we've one job as parents, and that is to, I mean, essentially keep you alive, protect you. Yeah. And I failed in that sense. Is it my fault? No. And I know that, but like, again, we have one job as parents, and I didn't do it. And so, regardless of logically or even like in the real world, like nothing different would have happened had I been there, had I not been there, had we done something different. But that doesn't take that feeling away. Right. That as a mom, I failed. That's hard.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

And for Ella, she's the oldest.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

And maybe she feels that way too. Oh, I know she does.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

Because we've we've definitely talked about it. Because, like, I mean, as an older sibling, what are you taught your entire life? Take care of your take care of your siblings, take care of your little brother.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

And do you think she'll be able to celebrate on her birthday? Do you think she'll be able to feel some of that joy that she still deserves to feel?

SPEAKER_03 7:49

I think she will. Um, I think that she did the smart thing because I mean you're invited to the party, so like you know exactly how big it is. It's not very big. And she's not even calling it a party. Yeah. She's calling it uh her birthday barbecue.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

And there's only a few people that are coming. And I think that that was smart, probably smart beyond her years, to know that like this is what I can handle that day, and I can't put on a face.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

Yeah, I can't act like these are the people I feel safe around, and if I get upset, it's safe to be upset around these people too. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:26

And like that's amazing that she knew that. Yeah, and so there's there's it's gonna be small, but she is getting kind of like a safety net that day because it's gonna be a tough day. Yeah, one thing that and like even Kyle didn't realize this because by the time he came around, like we weren't really doing it anymore. But uh Ella and Arlen, their birthdays are about three weeks apart. And so we have always from the time they were little until pretty much we moved here and they started, you know, being their own people. But like they've shared a birthday party because it was easier for all of our family to come out and be with us if we just joined, you know, combined it. And it's hard for her to separate from him that like his birthday's coming. Yeah. Or that if he was here, you know, would they be doing a joint party together, you know? And I know that those are the things that like she's thinking about. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Before um, or maybe instead of kind of staying in this in this heavy spot, I want to go back to your story about Ella being a miracle baby. Tell me that story.

SPEAKER_03 9:38

Yeah. So I had cervical cancer and I was 19 and I was pregnant and I lost the baby. And that was how I found out that I had cervical cancer. They didn't I didn't know. And they ended up having to remove the majority of my cervix. I want to say that originally it was only supposed to be like 20%, it ended up being more closer to 75%.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 10:02

So there was really nothing left. Um, and so I remember my doctor many times he was like, You you are capable of getting pregnant, but like you will not be able to carry a child to term. And and it will be probably pretty dangerous, and and and he really didn't recommend it. And so was on birth control from then on and you know, making sure that I I don't get pregnant because it could be bad. And I went to the doctor for like my checkup, you know, because I had to go like every six six months to a year just to make sure that everything was good. And he was like, Hey, do you still want to have kids? And I was like, Yeah, like just kind of a rude like conversation. Like, are we rubbing it in? Is it the same doctor? The same doctor. And he was like, Well, he's like, your cervix screw back. And he's like, it's he's like, honestly, it it looks healthier than even before. Wow, because I actually had the same doctor from the time I was like 16. Oh wow, as my gynecologist. And he was great, he was a wonderful gynecologist, so I like kept going back. Yeah, and he was like, It's it looks better now than it ever has. Wow. And he was like, You can have kids. And I was like, Do I need to do anything special? Like, do I need to like take hormones or blah blah blah? Because I'm like thinking, I've been on birth control forever. Yeah, like how can I just have kids? And he was like, Well, stop taking your birth control, and you do know how babies are made. And I was like, thanks so much for this conversation. So that is basic that's that's what happened. And I mean And you were married at that time? Yeah, Dan and I were already married, and we talked about it. We decided to to try. And I think that I really do think that Dan, I don't think he expected it to work or maybe not as quickly, but I would say it had to have been within the week that we started trying that I got pregnant. Yeah. And we were just like, okay, so we are doing this. We're having a baby. Yes. And yeah, it was it was kind of crazy how fast it happened. I mean, my pregnancy was hard. Yeah. It was a really tough pregnancy. I was really, really sick. Like my hair was falling out, and I my skin looked bad. Like everything. It wasn't the beautiful, glittering pregnancy that you see in the magazines. Absolutely not. Um, but I still remember just being like so filled with joy that like I was getting to have my baby. And I mean, I had two stepkids who I loved and adored, but like my baby. Yeah. And growing inside you, and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

Were you did you always know you wanted to find out the gender of the baby before before it was born, or was that a surprise?

SPEAKER_03 12:45

No, I I wanted to know. You did, okay. Um, I was really hoping for a boy. Um, I think I've told you that. Like, I cried when I found out. Yeah. And but it was really cool because the night that we found out that Ella was a girl. So we we had names picked out for a boy, for a girl. Although the boy names were like, we hadn't decided 100%, but like if it was a girl, I knew I wanted to name her Ella after my grandmother. And to me, I'm like, I should have known at that time that like it's definitely a girl. Because like, how do you have a girl name picked out? Like, you know that this is what their name's gonna be. And so the day that we found out that she was a girl, um, so the name the day we officially she's gonna be Ella, there was a meteor shower that night. Oh, how cool. And I remember we were sitting outside, we lived in a little rental at the time, and we had like a jacuzzi. And we were sitting in the jacuzzi. I mean, I was I had my feet in the jacuzzi when I was pregnant. And yeah, and it just ever so cool.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Yeah. What do you remember about the moment you knew she was really truly yours? Like, was it was it after she was born and in your arms, or did it take a little while? How what do you remember when when you were like, She's mine, this is my baby?

SPEAKER_03 14:01

Honestly, I would say even before she was born. I mean, I have always been super close to Ella. I don't know if it's just because it was such a precious like time and gift that like I felt maybe different than but like I never had like a moment where I was like had a hard time connecting with her. Uh-huh. And I know that that sometimes it does. Yeah, and and and I feel immensely blessed that I did not have to experience like that disconnect.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

But for with Ella specifically, I would say honestly, in the womb.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

I she's just, I don't know, she's she's always been my little girl. And like it's so funny because she's the spinning image of me. Yeah. She really is. Like, so even when she was little, like my mom used to say, like, you literally gave birth to yourself. Yeah. Like, this is you, this is what you look like. Yeah. I have a picture of Ella when she's like two, holding a picture of me when I was two, and you cannot tell the difference. Just looks like twins. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

Yeah. What's something she did or said when she was tiny that you still think about? She has a lot of like such cute yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

So Lemon Lade was one for like ever. She, yeah, I want to say until she was like seven or eight. She continued to say it just because it was so freaking cute. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

And um And she had that that squeaky, cute little voice.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

She did have a squeaky, cute little voice. I posted the video of her watching like the Meow Mix commercials. It's so freaking cute. Um, she I would say like her singing. It was both of my kids were really musical, and it's kind of interesting because she's kind of grown out of it now. But I remember, so I got pneumonia when Ella was probably two or three years old. And I was really sick, really, really sick. And I like really struggled staying awake, and like my my mom had to come and stay with me because how do you take care of two small children when you have pneumonia and you're a single mom? And I remember I was laying on the couch because I was just like so just ill. Yeah. And she was wearing a Queen of Hearts little dress-up dress because she loved all of that stuff, and she made up a song to put me to sleep. And it was like, go to sleep, go to sleep. And I like could still hear her singing. She's just so cute. She's just the sweetest little thing. Yeah. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

Being the oldest already comes with a certain kind of weight, you know. The oldest child kind of bears a lot of responsibilities that younger siblings don't necessarily have to have to bear. What does grief do to the weight she's already carrying?

SPEAKER_03 16:44

I'm not sure the grief changes it very much, if at all. I think it just makes the mental load that you're already carrying just so much heavier. Yeah. And I know for Ella, and like, and I can see it in how she interacts with Archer. Yeah. That it's it's almost like before it was, you know, I have to protect him, but it wasn't like keeping him out of like life.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

But now I feel like she does kind of keep him out of life. Like she's like, no, you can't do that. No, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Like because she knows how serious consequences can be. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

And and sometimes the things that she says no to, or like the things that will like trigger that response in her, I'm like, Ella, that's not a big deal. Like, let him. And she like I've heard her say it, like, but he's just a little kid. And it's almost like she wants to protect this innocence that she no longer has.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

And I mean, in all reality, he doesn't either. But like she, it's hard for her to separate the two.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

So what do you see her carrying that she doesn't say out loud?

SPEAKER_03 17:58

The weight of everybody and and all of our grief. Because we all grieve in different ways. Yeah. And I think that she she will not necessarily share what is happening inside of her own little heart because she knows that like I'm hurting. Yeah. Or she knows that dad is hurting. Or she knows that, you know, Archer is hurting, or Sam is hurting. And so she's like, well, mine's not as bad. And that is, I mean, unfortunately, that's that is like a conditioning that happens like so early on in like the loss of a child that her grief is not as important as other people's. And she still carries that, you know, every single day. Where it's like, well, you know, I I'll I'll be okay. But like mom's not okay. And so I need to worry about mom.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

Kind of like what we've talked about before, where you know, when there's a lot going on, we tend to self-sacrifice because we're worried about all the other people around us, and she's doing that too. She's sacrificing her own expression of emotion because she wants to be there for everybody else.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Yeah. Does she grieve differently than you do?

SPEAKER_03 19:15

Yeah, I would say so. Because so I am like I have to to move, I have to do things. Grieving Arlen was probably the first time that I ever made myself stop so that I could feel it all. And I would say Ella's more that's kind of what she does is she stops. Yeah. And she has to feel all the feelings all the time before she can like move forward. And I could not do that like regularly. I mean, I did it in the beginning, and I think that was really, really important for me in the healing journey. But if I was still doing that today, like I and I I mean I've I've told my mom, I've I've told Kyle, like if I stop now, I worry that I won't be able to start again. Yeah. And so that is really tough for me because I'm like, oh my God, I can't do it. But like for Ella and Kyle actually, they both grieve very similar. They they have to stop. Yeah. And they have to feel it. And I think it's I think it's because they hide so much all the time, like regularly, that if they don't let it out and let those feelings be felt, yeah, then it will become too much. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

How do you protect her from carrying too much?

SPEAKER_03 20:45

To me, it's just like a constant just like reminder that like her feelings matter. And she is a kid. Like at the end of the day, she is a child and her responsibility is not to me.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:58

My responsibility is to her, but her responsibility is not to me.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

And her job right now in this moment is to learn how to regulate, you know, whether it's emotionally, you know, but everything for herself so that when she gets older, she's going into life with like healthy, you know, resources and tools in her toolbox. Like this is how I go through life, this is how I communicate, this is how I handle, you know, tough situations or grief for that matter. Like someday she's gonna lose me.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:31

And I want to know that like I set her up to know how to handle that. And that means she can't handle mine.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

And so just that reminder of like, hey, like, stop. Yeah. That's mine. That's my cross to bear, not yours. And let's let's talk about some of the things that you're experiencing. Let's talk through those.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:56

And sometimes it's hard to get her to like, you know, really. Pull some of that information out of her, but again, we're really close and so we do talk about everything.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

I noticed when we were trying to shoot the the birthday episode with her, you were picking up on little um signals from her facial expressions to the tone in her voice. You were able to pick up on some of those very, very subtle markers. Have you gotten better at that over time too? Is that sort of how you you start to kind of dial into her and realize maybe she's carrying something a little bit bigger than she realizes herself?

SPEAKER_03 22:33

Yeah, I would say I would say she she's she's pretty expressive, or at least I I see it. It's expressive to me. But yes, she does have like a change in tone. Um even like the her word choice is like a little bit more aggressive, I guess. Like sharp. Yeah, sharp is a better word for it. And but one of the big and this is this is the one where I I she like argues with me a little bit on it, but we we tell her that like she becomes a little bit of like a troll, like she's going down to a troll hole. But like because she has to stop and and feel her feelings, sometimes she'll separate herself. And so teaching her, like, no, you need that human connection when you're feeling those feelings, like that's really important.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Like she wants to isolate, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:20

Okay. And so I'm like, when you feel that you need to be in your troll hole, is the last like place that you need to be. And so if I notice that she's spending time downstairs, like in her room, separated more than normal, then that's when I'm like, nope, you have to come upstairs and hang out with us. And she'll get mad, but at the same time, I'm like, you need to have human connection, like that's so important for your healing. And if you isolate, it just makes it worse. Yeah, and so I I don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Yeah, that's good. What do you wish people understood about child grief that's different from parent grief or adult grief?

SPEAKER_03 23:59

So sibling grief specifically is siblings are called the forgotten grievers. And it is because as the parents, the focus is on them because you shouldn't outlive your children. And like, and it is really hard. And I think a lot of moms probably especially, um, but parents in general, like it's harder than anybody will ever realize just to wake up. Like all those normal tasks of like going to work, like people do not realize like how difficult that is. Every single and we have to do it every single day for the rest of our lives. And we think about it just like that. I have to do this again tomorrow, and it was so hard to do today. Yeah, and so like there is so much focus on that that like people to forget that like a child is almost even less equipped to with that same feeling.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Yeah, they have way fewer life experiences to prepare them for that shift, and we're expecting them, like yes, should I like go to work and do a good job and perform well?

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Sure. But like school, school's not an option. Yeah, you have to go to school, like by law. Yeah. My kid has to go to school. Yeah, and we expect them to go to school and we expect them to participate, and we expect them to stay engaged, and we expect them to be respectful and pay attention when like you can't, and navigate all the peer relationships that are happening at the same time. With children, other children who have either A never experienced anything like it, or B, probably didn't have a great support system because there's just not a lot of us out there that are operating in this reality. And so for sibling grief, it is so important that they are recognized. And that is something that in like Kyle and I both made a really active like choice. Like, hey, your grief is just as important as ours, if not more, because in some ways, and I do think about that for Ella. Ella, like, I lost my son, okay. I was supposed to have a whole life, you know, prepared, but like at the same time, like I was gonna die someday, and my son was gonna still have a life. Yeah, but Ella was supposed to have her whole life with him. Yeah, that was supposed to be her reality. He was going to be there when I'm not, yeah, yeah. And that's gone. And how do you rebuild that future without that person who was supposed to be by your side when the other people in your life are are not gonna be there? Yeah, and it's it is like losing it's losing your your past and your future. Yeah. Because you've you've lost the person that you have all these memories with, and that's really hard. And they fade. Like they they do, yeah, especially for children. I mean, like how much do you remember? You know, and so every year, like little things, you know, you start to forget. And and she knows it, like she knows every single thing that she's forgotten about Arlen. And which to me, I'm like, I think that means that you didn't forget.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

But like, yeah, you know, but I think the trauma of it may have sped some of that up too.

SPEAKER_03 27:22

Yes. So she's lost this past version of herself, but she's also lost this future version of herself, and she's just stuck.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:31

And like we we have to do better, and like at the end of the day, like these are they're kids, yeah, they're kids, even the schools don't know how to handle a child who is experiencing a loss like this, and they're there eight hours a day, yeah, you know, and so it's just sibling grief is just in my opinion, it's just bigger, it's so much bigger.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

Has she found comfort in therapy in the same way that that you have?

SPEAKER_03 28:03

Off and on, therapy is a little bit, I think, tougher, and it like sometimes she'll be like, I don't have anything to talk about, and she doesn't understand that like that's okay. Yeah, and it's still helping her, even though she doesn't necessarily think that it is. But I think that'll come with time, you know, realizing like, oh, I was still building like my toolbox, yeah. Even though I didn't really talk about anything to do necessarily with Arlen. And so yeah, she she did stop therapy for a little while. I she she wanted to, and and I was like, I'll allow it. I said, but if I have to step back in because you aren't doing and you're not using your tools and your resources, I'm like, it's no longer going to be like a choice you're gonna have to go. And and I I did. I had to step back in and say, nope, we're doing this. And it was pretty recent, I want to say like a month or two ago. She thanked me. Yeah. Yeah. She was like, You were right, I I needed to stay in therapy. I should have done that. And I was like, thanks.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Good, good. What does it look like to try to be present for Ella when you're also grieving Arlen?

SPEAKER_03 29:13

That's a tough one. That's a really tough one because sometimes I do feel like I'm not as present as I should be. Because there are so many things that do take my time and attention that like I I can't not. And it's not that I'm saying like not being a mom is like the thing that you give up because it's not, but like there's all these things that have to happen every single day, functions that I can't just let go. And so sometimes that emotional connection might kind of fall off because I have to make sure that you're fed and clothed, you have a home to live in because I have to go to work, you know, all of those things are happening, and then there might not be a whole lot left.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

And so I have I have found it's really important that I'm also taking care of my own self so that I have something to give. Yeah. And that's I think as moms, we just any mom, we have a tendency to forget that like self-care is so important. And I would say that I'm more aware that self-care is more important now than it ever was before losing Arlem. Because I need it. I need it so that that way I can pour into my family emotionally because they need me.

SPEAKER_02 30:38

Are there days when you just can't?

SPEAKER_03 30:40

Absolutely. What do you do then? I mean, Mother's Day, perfect example. It's it isn't it's not a great day for me. Yeah. You know, it's just not I Do you pull away? No. Or do you still find comfort in the family? Yeah, I make sure that I stay with them. Um You know that that's better for you? I know it's better for me. Yeah, I need to have that connection. And I I I I don't know how to explain it exactly, but we watch Disney movies all day. Like that's normally what I do. If I'm feeling like I really can't do this, I it's almost like I revert back to like my childhood, I guess, in a way. But I think that it actually has more to do with like that almost numbing, like I know exactly what's going to happen.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

I know every word. There's comfort in that predictability and every story has a happy ending.

SPEAKER_03 31:36

Yes, and I need that, yeah. And so it seems kind of stupid and maybe a little bit childish, but like knowing every little thing that's going to happen in that day and having that predictability when like everything inside is is not predictable, I need that. Yeah, I cannot have an unpredictable outside and an unpredictable inside at the same time. Yeah. And so Mother's Day, I I put on my robe and I sat myself on the couch with my blankie and you stopped. Yep. All day. Yep. And it was exactly what I needed. Good.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

What do you hope Ella sees in you and in the way that you have moved through this tragedy?

SPEAKER_03 32:23

I hope that she sees how you can you can feel both. I think that that is so so important. And I think that that is going to help her through life in big ways. It's gonna help her be a better communicator, a better partner, a better employee to to know and have that emotional maturity. And it's not about feeling better. Yeah, like that's not what it's about, but it is about being able to say, okay, like this is what I am capable of, or this is what I'm not capable of, and being able to work through those things and work through them even with people. That's huge to be able to like look at your partner and be like, hey, this is what's happening right now. Like, how many, how many people do we know that are out there with their spouse and they can't even tell them you said this and it made me feel like this? Yeah, and like she's never gonna have that problem. And I love that for her because it's so important, it's so simple, yeah, but it carries you through everything in life. It does.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

I don't know how you do it. I j I genuinely don't. You still smile, you still laugh, you still hold everybody together, and you're doing all of that while carrying the most immense pain and hurt I could ever imagine. Um and I don't have a word for for what for what that that is. I just know I I've never seen anything like it. And Ella is watching all of it. She sees you, she sees the way you handle it, and whether or not she recognizes everything she is is because of you. I mean, she's just so lucky to have to have you as that role model. And she's just getting started. Kat, she's about to start driving, she's got this whole life ahead of her. What do you want her to carry into it knowing everything she's already been through?

SPEAKER_03 34:33

That she is perfect, just the way she is. And like she doesn't have she doesn't have to be anything other than herself.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:45

That's all she needs to do. And own it. Be happy with it, be accepting of it. And she'll be okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

If Ella listens to this later, what do you want her to understand about grief and love existing at the same time?

SPEAKER_03 35:01

That it is okay. That the this whole idea of if it doesn't feel good, it's not good, is wrong. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Yeah. Things that don't feel good can still be love. What do you hope she knows about herself that she might not see yet? I know you mentioned that she's perfect. Is there anything else you see in her that she might not realize yet? How strong she is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

I mean, like, that is just unbelievable to me. Just how as a teenager. Yes. Like, she's so tough. And I'm not just talking about physically, but she is really strong physically as well. But like she is mentally and emotionally strong in ways. Yes. Yes. In ways that a lot of adults are not even.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

Yeah, I agree. Is there something you think Arlen would have wanted for her? Something you think he'd say to her if he could?

SPEAKER_03 35:55

I think that I think Arlen would be really proud of her. And I think that's what he would say. Yeah.

unknown 36:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

This wasn't the episode we planned. We came in ready to celebrate and somehow ended up having a much more honest conversation instead. But I think that's what this show is supposed to be. Some days are funny, some days hit harder than you expected, and sometimes both things exist at the same time. Before we go, is there anything else you want to say to Ella? Happy birthday. Thank you. Life doesn't pause long enough to neatly separate joy from grief or celebration from heartbreak. Sometimes they show up in the same room at the exact same time. If you've ever had a day that was supposed to feel happy but didn't fully feel that way, you're not alone in that either. Grief doesn't care what day it is, it just shows up when it shows up. Happy birthday, Ellabella Ballerina, fairy princess. To our listeners, thanks for being with us today. We'll see you next week.