22 - The Mid-Chapter "Girl Dad"

Most parenting advice assumes you were there from the beginning. But what happens when you come into a child's life mid chapter and have to earn something that other parents just automatically get?

In this episode Kat and Kyle get honest about what it looked like to build real relationships with each other's kids. What it took, what it cost, and what they learned along the way. Kyle talks about what it means to be a girl dad, and Kat gets into what it looked like to watch that happen and trust the process even when it was hard.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Kyle is back. And today we are getting into his part of the story that I think is going to resonate with a lot of people listening. Kyle did not get the easy years with Ella. He came in when she was already formed, already had her own opinions, already had a whole life he was not part of. And today he and Kat are talking about what he did with that. Kyle, glad you're back. Well, when you married Kat and um, well, I guess what I I hear is when you married Kat, you started taking Ella out on kind of like one-on-ones, just the two of you. Where did that idea come from? And what did those early um days together or activities together dates, I guess if you will. Um, how did that feel? Just the two of you.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Well, I think it was just important to me that every kid got like dad time.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Without like we're all going out to eat, or we're all going to, you know, to the movies together, we're all going to fart somewhere together. So like you can dedicate time to each individual child. Especially because um no kid gets the same parent.

SPEAKER_04 1:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

You know, like middle kid, you know, older different versions. Yeah, everyone gets, you know, because you're in a different part of your life, you're maybe financially or even emotionally, you know, so no child experiences the same parent. Like, of course, every child is should be loved. Yeah, you know, but they all feel loved different, you know, a complimental child and loved as much. So I think it was really important, you know, to like be able to like separate spending time with the other kids. Yeah. So each one has something. And like I don't I try and make it like where it's not the same thing, too. Yeah. Like, oh, every kid's going to the movies or every kid's going to play laser tag or something. So like everyone has I have this with dads.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

Did you ask them what they wanted to do with you, or would you surprise them with things?

SPEAKER_00 1:48

I think in the first part, like I try to surprise, and then like as kind of like matured and got a little bit further on with our relationships, yeah, you can kind of see each person enjoys something different with uh I don't like her being a girl. It's still like I don't want to hang out with dad, and like I started to like I don't want to go out to the mall. Yeah, and like I'll take her there. But usually what Dal would do is I'll sit there with a book and like let her girlfriends yeah and give them money, and then they can have some like they feel more adult time, like I get to make my own decision. Like, mom's not picking this clothes out, or yeah, you're not wearing that. Like, she gets her own choice on like I want to go to Victoria's Secret without my mom. Yeah, I want to go, you know, to like they have come home with.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

I'm like, really?

SPEAKER_00 2:30

I'm I went to the Spencer's and like you know, go down some of the aisles that every kid wants to go down when they go to Spencer. Not with their parents, yeah. No, so like that now, and then she also to me me and her enjoy par movies. Yeah. So like Kat never wants to go to scary.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

No, me either.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Whereas like I I enjoy them just as much as she does.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

In fact, I think she has a scream shirt on today. Is this that a screen movie? So yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

So that one, I think it's like she enjoys that because she doesn't have to talk to dad still, but she can talk after the fact. Yeah, that that part was scary, or like you know, that part like a movie jump and two.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

I think you guys like to come home and like talk about the gory gross details, just like gross me out too. Yeah, they enjoyed that. Like, mm-hmm, they can get mocked throughout and I think that's where it started, and then it kind of evolved because like Arlen, you take him to like sportsman's, that was your best big thing, and then Archer is literally everything else, like yeah, Archer you can do anything.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Anything, yeah, just big enough into sports yet, and then our like Arlen was big enough into sports, yeah. He's like didn't matter if it was baseball, football, soccer, like he went to everything. He was like super huge analogy. Like you don't have to. There's like a video of him, like we were watching like the Atlanta Hawks game and he like was screaming when someone's on the free throw line, and it was the entire the entire stadium was quiet because he was like for Atlanta Hawks, like the guy was shooting free throws, so like he when you're it's your team, like you're quiet, but like when it's supposed to team, everyone's screaming. So it's just this little tiny kid from the third story, you know, screaming like, Come on, right, you can be with me.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

Yeah, that was literally what he said.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

It was wow. I wonder if the mice picked it up on like the live stream.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Oh, I bet you just could tell that was so Titans game. Uh we were on you were basing on the front row and they were walking around with like the mascot, and he was trying so hard to get the mascot's attention, and like the mascot wasn't paying. He would throw in like free things out to everyone, and like he was like, Hey, and like he didn't listen to him, and like he was so loud the the cheerleader like heard him, and like the cheerleader went over to like the mascot. And I was like, That kid, he like personally walked over uh-huh, like he was toxic, he and toxic.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

That's cool. When did you realize that you and Ella were both into scary movies?

SPEAKER_00 5:21

I think it's when she was telling him you like she used to watch Terrifier, yeah. And I was like, What? Like I was like, it's like a very, very gory scary movie.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Gross. It's a gross movie.

SPEAKER_03 5:31

Where'd she watch it? In her room.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Oh yeah, in her room with like her like girlfriends.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

Oh, like she I yeah, I mean it's did she know you liked scary movies?

SPEAKER_00 5:40

She said something and I was like, oh yeah, like that to me, like reminded me of like um Hostel or any of the Saw movies. Yeah, oh so it's like those types of scary movies are ones where you're like, oh, like that could be real, you know, to the to an extent. And like web terrifier was like one where it's like there's a lot of like adult content.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

And like, oh my god. And like the way they kill certain people, and like, there's some super green. She's like, What? I don't know, does it bother me about gun? It doesn't bother me.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Same girl who but but not with a zombie movie after about that. She'll like have nightmares for like weeks. Makes no sense. No, no, it doesn't. Not at all.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Yeah, so we went to 28 years later. Like she was like, no zombies. Yeah, she's not and they were naked zombies.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Zombies is like not her thing.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

It's funny. So um you've been putting in a lot of work and one-on-one time um with Ella, and now she's full on into wrestling. Um, and girls' wrestling is definitely not a casual sport, nor is it for boys. Um, it's physical, it's brutal, it takes a very specific kind of mental toughness. So, how has that sport become um something special or a big part of your relationship with her, too?

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Well, like so. I did it when I was in high school. Um, I think she's taken it to like another level where it's like her main, this is the only thing she wants to do. Because I was like when I was going to high school, it was like an off-season thing. Like you wrestled because football or you wrestled because baseball.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Just to kind of stay fair.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Yeah, like so you did those two, like, and like it got out a lot of pent-up aggression, you know. Everyone that age, I think, needs to get out there. But I think what's great that I enjoy with it is it teaches you like failure really quickly. Yeah, you know, like that, like it's just you and another person on a mat, and like someone's going to lose. Like, no one's gonna come, there is no tie in wrestling. So it teaches you like a little bit of tenacity, you know, like you like come back from it, you have to bounce back a little bit harder because you you make like one small mistake in wrestling can get it.

SPEAKER_04 8:00

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

And there's nothing wrong with you, like you'll you can look at a video of yourself and look, did everything right. Mine was like, I moved my foot six inches this way, or and then they grab yeah, I let go just enough for them to like flip out and like get points on top of me. So I think it's great that she's picking a sport where you you really don't have anyone else to rely on but yourself. Like it is it is 100% you're driven. It's not a team, I mean, to an extent, yeah, a team sport when you're when you're going to competitions, but yeah, like as far as you with the other person, you can't rely on anyone else.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

So what do you what does it look like when you're in the stands or you're down on the floor watching her during a tough match? What are you doing? What are you saying? What's going through your head?

SPEAKER_00 8:47

I don't think I've actually got to see a live match yet, just how the work, how my work is yeah, and like usually it's Sundays for like the boys, uh-huh. Yeah, but for hers with freestyle, it's been it's been Saturdays and I have to look. Oh so maybe this is a line from an app then. Yeah, so I've only got it from like you know, seeing the videos of it.

SPEAKER_03 9:07

Yeah, have you seen her at practice? How do you feel when she's out there?

SPEAKER_00 9:11

I think she like so I think she overthinks when she's in a tournament. Uh-huh. And then when she's like at actual Russian practice, and if she's in like on one-on-ones, she's so great. Like, I mean, she's like, she's good at she's good at tournaments too. She just gets in her head where she knows what to do, she knows the next move or she knows what to do to counter. But when she's in there, I think she just gets in her head and like, nope, I'm just gonna live in her nerves.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

I think that she it's nerves, but I think that she feels like I don't belong here, like I don't have a place here. Like just she's still building that confidence, yeah. And whereas like in the wrestling room, like people look at her and they're like, she's earned it. Yeah, she's earned her place in the room because like she's putting in the work. I mean, she's working four or five days a week every single week.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

And not just practice, she's also got the separate, yeah, like the one-on-ones. And is she still doing jujitsu too? Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

And so, like, she's she's a beast, she's a beast. And so in the wrestling room, she knows it, but like on the mat, she's like, Oh, like these people have been wrestling, you know, for four years or something.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

And I'm like, that means nothing.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

It does. And and then it's been tough because like she has had a couple really hard losses, yeah. And everyone, and everyone does. I mean, uh, but one of them was exactly what you said like she made a really minor mistake and it cost her, and she got pinned, and she was like, Oh my god, like like how did that even happen? And then she like watched the video back, she's like, that's that was exactly how that happened. Like she did exactly what she did, and she did it real early on, and it happens. Um, but you have to be able to like kind of shake it off.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

Yeah. And Kat, you were a wrestler too, right? Also in high school. So, what do you see when you watch um, you know, Kyle and her together, or when you see her, when you see the look in his face when he's watching her, how do you interpret that? Also, having had wrestling experience.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

I think for both of us, it is like it's it's hard when you watch your channel to like know better, you know, like where you know that you are more capable than what you're showing yourself to be. I think that's really hard as a parent. But like, I think for me, like he's watching her, I'm watching him. And I'm like, like, don't say that. Like, don't tell her she sucked. Like, it's hell great. Yeah, I'm like, oh my god, like you can't do that. She's a girl versus like boys tend to be a little bit tougher.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Like, and then also I say that, but then like you go to one of the competitions and watch the girls' matches versus the boys matches on the commons are way more. So it's uh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

I do also think that there's there's a little bit of a change that has happened over the years because like I know, like when I wrestled, like I told all of this, I was never like formally like trained. They were like, hey, here you go, get out there, try to survive. And it was like this girls don't belong in wrestling. Yeah, yeah. We were not wealthy. And so it wasn't like anybody was trying to spend time with us and like teach us. And but like even for boys, it was much more brutal than I think it is today. And I think coaches were a little bit meaner and a little like you know, like high strong. Like, I don't know if I ever one of my coaches, I don't know if I ever heard him talk. I only heard him scream. Yeah, you know, and so that's isn't it's not like that today.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

Not where we are anyway. I mean absolutely not. Yeah, I mean like struggle yell sometimes, but but it's so much about building character and strength and form and you know, it it really is a learning environment for them.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Yeah, trying to teach you like how much you can push past like what you think is is your breaking point, yeah. Without like in a screamy demeanor way, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

But that isn't what we grew up with.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

No, sometimes I didn't miss that. And like you can tell some of the coaches grew up in that science generation too. They're in the it they're very hard to laugh at, try to be quiet, you know. They get all red in the base of they're like it's I I like when they're like it's not supposed to feel good. Yeah, it is supposed to hurt. It is like, you know, you're in a sport where you're like you like you're not trying to physically hurt the other person, but you kind of yeah, like like when you're like when you're all yeah, when you're gut wrenching someone, like you're not supposed to like, okay, this probably hurting them. Like, yeah, it is. Yeah, they're supposed to like want to get out of that. Or they're supposed to like give up something where you can pin them, you know, because like, okay, it hurts so much, just pin me so I can just can't. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:54

You talked about that a little bit too, about how it it teaches you to kind of breathe through that panic reflex. Like you're, you know, you're in a really awkward, uncomfortable position. And instead of panicking and freezing, like you really have to think of the next step. Okay, what can I do? What's the little micro movement I can make to, you know, turn my body a little bit or something? And that that that's also a skill that sticks with you through life. Big time.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

And that's I I do think that that's why, I mean, at least that's why I love wrestling, is it isn't just about the sport. I mean, it's yeah, baseball, basketball, football, whatever. Like sports are great for a lot of different reasons, but wrestling is different because it is teaching you these life skills that you're not getting from other sports. I mean, the resilience factor, um, the discipline, yeah, the integrity and the care. Like it is amazing what it does. And to me, it honestly, like if I had to put it into words like a sport that's the closest to like a military, you know, upbringing or like career, it would be wrestling with how you know, rounded. Physically demanding and respect, yeah. Mentally. Yeah, yeah. And I I'm so glad the kids are doing yeah. I really especially I think that she's getting a lot from it. And she already is such a strong person. I mean, with like even just what she's been through, but like her resilience factor is amazing. And so I'm like, oh my god, like you could apply this and you will be unstoppable.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

She just started doing that fine and carry on the match.

SPEAKER_03 15:39

So, Pat, I want to kind of go back to this relationship between Kyle and Ella then, because you've been watching all of this unfold in real time. Um, you've kind of seen from the outside that the dates, the wrestling, the whole, this whole arc that Kyle has been building um to develop a relationship with your daughter. So, was there ever a moment where you were not sure it was gonna work?

SPEAKER_02 16:03

I mean, yeah, definitely. Um, Ella is my thing first and foremost. She's she is my Velcro child. She loves me, she wants to be with me all the time. And we have a great relationship. I mean, of course, like we figure one of my as her wrong daughter, but um we're very close. And um her biological down is she's not close to him. Um, and like there's a breakdown of trust there. Um, and she has carried that into other relationships with men. And so there was definitely a time where I was like, I don't know if you're gonna be able to like practice a shuttle because she definitely did not trust you in the beginning. You know, she was like, is he gonna be a real? Is he you know gonna ditch us? Is he like, you know, is he gonna end up being mean because that's how her dad was? And I know that like there was a lot of those questions like going through. And so like he had to earn that trust. And like that takes time. And you're not always very patient. So like there was times where I was like, are you gonna put in that work? Are you gonna wait? Like when she comes to you, and you did, you didn't, yeah, but like try to push it or force it, you really didn't, and I think that that was that was what she needed. Yeah, whereas like Arlen kind of had that same, you know, like distrust, but you pushed it with him. And he needed that, he needed you to push, but like Ella did not. She needed she needed the space to like make her own choice, and she did. I mean, look at this now.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

Were you did you ever feel pressure to have a relationship with Ella and Arlen? Were you aware that Kat was watching and kind of evaluating all the dynamics?

SPEAKER_00 17:55

No, I don't think like I don't feel like I was ever pressured to like have some because to me, like I think it's I I just like to do it naturally too. Yeah, like I it just it seems more natural. And like um they both had like their own like things in the beginning too, like Arlen the whole like did you know, like try to like stunt me on something because like we're super big into like history and like we're like history buffs. Like, did you know this? And like, yeah, did you know this because of this? And he's like, I go research it. Like, yeah, like yeah, this happened that big. Whereas like Ella was a little, I think, a little bit more nervous, especially because she was into uh like like different things than most like typical girls too. She was into like hate of the time.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

Like that was like uh he came into our lives when like Ella was like just coming out of like her like early stage, uh-huh. Yeah, like she had like a like a time where she was like a tomboy girl, and um like it's so funny because she looks back at it now, she's like, Oh my god, like I couldn't believe in, I was so gross, my hair was so gross, and blah blah blah. But like he loved it.

SPEAKER_03 19:13

Didn't you live in Japan too at one point or Korea of something? Did you live in HS somewhere? So could you were you able to make some connections with her based on living Korea?

SPEAKER_00 19:22

So like it's funny because like those it's so weird. It's a Japanese artist performing in Korea, uh-huh, but also speaking English. So it's like it's like a trifecto. So I'm like, it's so funny seeing certain like art, like especially some of the artists that she liked, those like, you know, they're Japanese, right? Like really for the freemen, like you know, but like, but yeah, like the performance create because they're super popular. Well, I was like, and they also most of their songs are sung in English.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

I wish I did get you an in with her because you you took an interest and and had some background knowledge.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

And like whenever we go out, like we do like those one-on-ones, or if like we went out and like um like hey, like what music do you guys want to listen to? Like each one of them got like their own choice to like hey dad, you should play like hey Kyle, can you play like for all and it would be like Eminem? Yeah, MM.

unknown 20:18

Dr.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Drew. We talked about that. We have one of the things then like um Ella would be like, I don't I don't care, and I'd be like, You want to listen to Black Pink, don't you? But yeah, it's fine. I'm like and I like uh I I learned the songs, like uh you know they're catchy, like don't get me wrong, like there's nothing wrong with big power too, right? I I like all genres. I mean, I can listen to any type of genre. So um and she like at one time she was really big into like those um like just dance and like sing and like the sing ones where like you sing. All those are typically like some type of like pop song.

SPEAKER_03 20:57

Yeah, they're not gonna be like rack or rock and roll, it's gonna be all like those ones that has the the dance floor that lights up and you dance to it a lot like that.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Like the joystick and you gotta like yeah dance.

SPEAKER_03 21:06

Yeah, the the joystick one. Yeah, it was just dance, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. I remember that was when it was big coming out and it had that motion thing too after the joystick thing too. It had that sensor and it could sense your body and you didn't have to hold anything. It was so cool.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Yeah, she loved that.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Now she stuck.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

So I mean, like I did that with her in like um I don't like to me, um like the typical dad like doesn't mind getting embarrassed. You can't embarrass dad yeah that can embarrass you, but like there's nothing that's gonna embarrass me. So I think like that's where she was like, Oh, this guy actually likes doing this.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

Yeah. What's it feel like to you, Kat, to have someone else love your kid, especially when when they're doing it well? How does that make you feel?

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Most of the time I love it. Um, but there are times where I'm like, you've like stepped in, like and you've like not taken. Love for me, but like there's things that you do with her that I don't. Like, I love it. And I'm like, oh my baby.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

You do get like super upset, like if me and her texting, or like sometimes they tell us there's sometimes like she wants to be like she wants to ask me, or like she wants to say something or share something with me. Yeah, she doesn't want me to share it, and I don't like I don't share it with you. Um, just so I have that trust like with her and like it irritates you know it. You're like, okay, I'm like, what are y'all talking about? Like, don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Like, I'm texting with Ella. Like, what do you mean? What do you mean you're texting with Ella? What? Yeah, and so adult level.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

But that's that's good for her to know because that's part of building that trust too, that she trusts you.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

And that's like uh like even like when we do text, sometimes like I'll tell her, like, that's one thing that's like I don't want you to ever feel like you can't come to me. And even if it's something where like you don't want to tell mom, like that you still have an adult, but you still have a parent, yeah, that you're like, whether you messed up, like messed up, you know, like God forbid it's something like I had sex when I'm pregnant, you know, like she could come to some some one of the parents. Someone, yeah, to bring it to them.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

I don't think that's the conversation she's gonna have with you.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

No, but um as an example of you know, like she could go if it's that extreme, or like yeah, you know, watching some of these like girlfriends kill their boyfriends at 17, like, you know, daddy killed my boyfriend, and like, oh my god, you know.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

We just watched the crunch all together. Oh yeah. Oh my god. You you got into that, and yeah, it's really good. But yes, normally, yeah. It's like, anyways, it's about like a teen like true crime kind of thing. That was a true feelings. I mean, I'm surprised it's all over TikTok. Like everybody's talking about it, but um well, sorry, I've noticed.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

She drove her car into uh into a building and told a hundred miles per account.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

Oh god, yeah. But we also so Ella does like watch true crime with us. Um Love is Blind. Love is Blind, too much with us, but Love Island, yeah. So right now we're in the middle of watching uh Love Island after the villa.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Which is so funny that she wants to watch that with us too, because to me, like I would never want to watch Real World or Royal Rules with my friends.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

No, I know it's a different volume though. Like it's means too.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Yeah, all the games are players like make out with each other blindfolded, and you can tell like and then like rate each other's pissing. I'm like, Yeah, you wanna watch this with your parents? Like, it's okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:28

I remember it was either in high school or right after we graduated. Um, my best friend Elizabeth and I went to see something about marrying with her dad. Um we had no idea what that really it's gonna be about, but um, yeah, it was a different time. We wouldn't have done that.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

No, I don't even think that like still to this day, I mean, probably not to this day, but like I don't know if growing up I even said the words like insects in front of my mom. Like we didn't talk about it, like we talked about that with our students, and which was is not good. Like it should be something that you can talk about with your kids. Like you should be talking about these things, but at the same time, like I don't know if I would watch two people like doing it on camera with it right there.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

Yeah, it's a lot so just recently you adopted Ella, you signed your name. Um when did you know that was something that that you wanted to do? Making it official.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

I guess I already talked about it prior than the tornado. Um it's interesting planning, like you didn't want to go back to Dan. Like I and I have to watch it.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

And did that happen? Like, did did something happen and that conversation immediately came up? I can't remember. It's I feel like you said one of the kids asked you something, and that's sort of what started some of you thinking about it.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

He was in Scotland first time.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

Yeah. So before the tornado, um, they had gone to visit him almost like a year prior, I want to say. And um it was not a good trip. It was not a good trip at all. And I remember, I mean, it was what two days in?

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Two or both, right?

SPEAKER_02 26:25

They were they were texting, calling. How long are they supposed to be there? A week. Did they stay the full week? They did.

SPEAKER_03 26:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

But by two, they were by day two, they they were like, we wanted to home. Um, and it was, I mean, it was heart-wrenching to like hear them on the phone and like knowing there's nothing I can do. Yeah. And um when they got home and they kind of told me what had happened and like why it was so like devastating for them. Um it's like I don't I don't want to put you guys through this anymore. And um, Arlen was the one who was like, I never want to go back. And like, how can I guarantee that I never have to go back?

SPEAKER_04 27:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

And it was like, there's really, you know, you have court order. Like, there's if if Dan wants to exercise his per parental rights, like he has every right to do that. And like, I I can't tell if I if I don't send you anything. What was the court order specifically? Was there a certain we he had a certain amount of time that he could have a dungeon because we lived in seven states? Um, he had never really exercised the parental visitation, so I was never like super worried about it. But like Arlen was really concerned, like that he was gonna have to go back and he did not want to, like ever again. He made that so clear. Yeah. And um, so that's when it started. And um, and then after the tornado, like Ella, like obviously things are different.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Yeah, really didn't want to go back because you know, like now you got Arlen, so it was like God forbid something happened to you. Yeah, you know, and like could she like go back, you know, with Harlan? Yes, but now there was like there's no way it's even more pressing.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

And for that first year, just leaving the house was really difficult, and like spending any significant amount of time away from the home was really difficult, I think for everybody. And so all of that like kind of combined to the point where we're like, this isn't gonna work. Yeah, and it was causing her a lot of stress, yeah, like a lot of worry. And when you experience death like we did, like the idea that somebody else in your life could die is very real.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

And I mean, most people don't have to think about that, yeah, but like it's our reality, yeah. And so there is no like, oh, that would never happen, or because like I can't count the number of times, like you know, she's like, I'm worried about like as a parent in mom's like, oh, you don't have to worry about that forever for so long. It's like you don't know that.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

You don't you don't know that yeah, the unimaginable has has already happened. But um so Kyle, for another stepdad who might be in the early stages of building relationships with children who are not biologically theirs, um, do you have any advice for someone who might just be starting out or something you wish someone had told told you about creating or forging a relationship with um with potential stepchildren or actual stepchildren even?

SPEAKER_00 29:47

I think if you're really trying to create a bond, like you really do like listen, like what would interest them, even if it doesn't interest you, and like try to find some like way to like get into that passion a little bit too. It's getting out of your own boundary, like something that you you know typically wouldn't want to do. I think there's times where I'm like, oh I really don't want to do that. You know, yeah, they could I could do anything else, and then it's like okay, but like they get a lot of enjoyment out of it too. So like stepping out of your like own comfort zone sometimes, you know, is is a huge thing too.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

I think the one-on-one is an incredible idea, even whether regardless of whether it's a stepchild or a bio child.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Yeah, I mean, like whether it's like even like going to get ice cream. Yeah, like it's like you're just getting ice cream with like you know, do it with Arlen, deal with Archer, being with Ella.

SPEAKER_03 30:41

But you still even learn something about them in that experience. Like, what's your favorite ice cream? You know, if you ever want to surprise them with ice cream or something. Yeah, it's just a cash.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

Like they get like, you know, oh so almost every kid opens up a little bit too, you know, whether they're sad or happy, or like, I like this, or when'd you start looking that? Do you like you know, like what if your music changes, or what you like watching TV? Because like like Ella, you know, there's plenty of things she loved watching as far as cartoon-wise and TV-wise, and now she was all about every like TV, like drama, love islands, yes, you know, thing. And I'm like, how did this change, you know? But like and we still watch them together because like she enjoys it. Well, it's something that me and you would watch if we would ever pick if the thing had this problem.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

No, no, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Like the whole like Jersey Shore and like where World War Rolls is passive, so yeah, I need to watch again. But now we can be like, Sistance we watch too. Like, no, I'm like go watch Jersey Shore and tell me this is in the that's that one you're gonna see on TikTok. Yeah, so like I mean, like, even like um what's the one uh where like they're love is blind, yeah. So it's in a different city, like that's real world, real Elena.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

Yeah, but that is like that that's a hundred percent us. Like that was us being like, you should watch this with us. It's like our one TV show that's like super trashy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Findless entertainment and not like look away from it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

Yeah, like I don't even I don't like it's such a dumpster fire.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

Um well like that's what I like. I was trying to explain to her too, because it was like the like just because it's different, it's the same thing. Like the rear real they had like in like it was like you could not watch it because it's so trashy it was like like oh there's seven people in a house, and like you know, they're partying until four o'clock and one person's bad, yeah, and like go to sleep, and like you know, everyone's fighting because of that. Like they did this, you know, multiple years, they changed different locations. They take the characters. Yeah, so it's like you know, Lovis Blonde or whether it's Love Island or anything like that, too. They're doing the same thing. It's just yeah, yeah. And like she's like, Well, like they were dating, like they were in this like on the island for 30 days or less. And I was like, and this person didn't come in until like 14 days after that. So I was like, You're telling me someone fell in love and it's like the love of life and they've known each other for 12 days. It's like well, and the you have to see her in bikini, and you got to see him in like you know, uh like a little small don, you know, outfit, and you're like, so uh, you know, like yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

Well in the Lone Island, like after the villa is like me up because like I don't know how long it's been since they got like six-ish months, I'm guessing, or maybe a year, and like they're like still like holding these like massive grudges about like things that happened on the island, and and I'm like, oh like weren't they only on the island for like a couple of days? And she's like, No, mom, it was like a week. And I'm like, Oh, so different like uh that's that makes so much sense. Like, why is she so mad that he might have dated somebody off the island? Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

But those like those things I think things are what's great and like actually get you to like you know resonate with your kid, yeah, instead of like hovering down the room all the time, yeah. Like you wouldn't understand, you know, they can come up and like actually hang out with us and actually like think about all the things that she feels comfortable talking to us about because like we will watch trash TV with her, you know, and like it's not like we are watching it and she's watching it around us because I feel like that's a little bit different, but like she felt comfortable enough to be like, hey, do you guys want to watch this with me?

SPEAKER_02 34:26

Yeah, and like knowing that there's like some certain things that were gonna embarrass her, yeah, and be like, okay, but like it does open up a lot of conversations that I mean, in all reality, like more parents should be having their kids. But like there's no taboo conversations for any of us. And I think that that's part of why like we're all so close.

SPEAKER_03 34:52

Um, you also said something a little bit ago, Kyle, about um noticing like when you had those one-on-ones, you noticed like when their taste and music would change or something. And it kind of made me think of, you know, if you go to the dentist routinely or go to the doctor routinely or whatever, you kind of know what your normal is and it gives you a baseline so you know when something's not normal anymore, and you're very intuitive and you know, you pick up on subtle changes in people anyway. But but it is a good dipstick because now you kind of know what their baseline is. And so when something changes, you might be more in tune to see, like, is something going on, or um, you know, is this just a normal change? Um, you know, you already know that.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Experimental change, like if you as you're getting older too.

SPEAKER_03 35:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

I think that's what helped too, is like there was a time where like I want to dye my hair. And like I remember I wanted to dye my hair when I was a kid. My dad was like, he was like, never, you'd never dye your hair. It only made me want to dye my hair even more to the point where like you remember Sun in?

SPEAKER_03 36:00

Yes, I used it all the time.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

I took an entire bottle of it instead of like just induct it so my hair turned completely orange, and I was like super mad. You know, I'm like, oh like you know, I was just trying to do like the NSYNC battery boys where you had like a little bit of white, you know, and like you know, I want to make this, I want to make this go faster, so I just poured the whole bottle. So like that that was a bad thing. But like they, you know, Arlen, everyone wanted to die like it's like sure, go ahead. And you know, like I know some parents are like, I would never love that. I'm like, why? Like, or are you gonna have like the 17, 18 year old, you know, that goes, you know, like that that does the same exact thing, but like you have no like you know, repercussion. You have no way saying, like, you can't do that because now I hate an adult.

SPEAKER_03 36:43

And then there's no guardrails either for them to explore.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Yeah, so like much rather like they experienced it at a younger age, and like you get like some people like the kids at school will be like, oh, it's cool, or some would be like, that's the stupidest thing, or like you're you know, so you get that, like the kids get that feeling, like, oh okay. Instead of like your 19, 20 year old, and you get it, you're like, Oh, this is what my parents are talking about.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

What about the two of you? Because you know, building a relationship with other people's children, because you were doing it too with Archer, and then you're building a relationship with Ellen Arlen, um, that you know, that wasn't happening in a vacuum. There's still a relationship for Kat and Kyle out outside of all these, all the children. So what was happening um with your relationship when you were dating or when you were newly married? Um, how did how did you still show up for each other while you were still also trying to forge these new relationships with all the kids?

SPEAKER_02 37:40

Well, I think we need it secretly and night time or it's I so I do think that we uh always throughout our entire relationship made sure that we have like time to get just as and like we still do today. We just got back from Disney not that long ago. And before then we had gone to Universal. And um just a natural virus for momentum was just overnight, just to make sure that we are getting one-on-one time. But I also think that you and I are on the same page and have been from the beginning that like, yes, your children are the center of your universe, of course. But like if your marriage and your foundation of your marriage is not right, like that is gonna spill over into your relationship with your kids. And so we feel that it's really important that we are solid so that the kids can be solid. Whereas I think a lot of at least second, third marriages, like what you know. Like they're it's more like, well, the kid is the center of our marriage versus the couple. And I'm not saying I'm not saying that.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

We're like my forever person, and then like you know, our kids are our forever person. No, yeah, like they're like anyway, and it's like it sounds like a shitty way to say it, but like they're not our forever person, like they're not gonna be there in like let's just say 20 years from now.

SPEAKER_03 39:03

Like they're like they have it, they branch and have their own hands.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Yeah, they're like, yeah, so like like if I was to like you know solely focus on our true or like hello or you ordered two, and like like start to like just in each other, yeah. If we like, yeah, if we didn't like hey, we need time for us, like what's gonna happen in 10 years from now when we don't have the Hollage Bridge anymore that we were investing everything into, like okay, we need to super focus on Hello, we need to super focus on our true. Like we've never spent time or never did anything by ourselves, and then it's not to the point where like we're sitting in the house together with no kids, like retired and like now what?

SPEAKER_03 39:39

Like, who are you? Yeah, like uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

You want to get Chinese? Like, I hate Chinese. I've told you this 10 years ago, you know. I don't want to drink you, and I'm like, you know, you know I don't like Chinese, by the way. She doesn't like Chinese.

SPEAKER_03 39:51

You're kidding. I didn't know that about you.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

She stands in club. I love Chinese.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

We love Chinese.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

Oh, yeah. And I hate it.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

I think it's funny. Well, like, yeah, that is that is weird. That those are two of the most like common comfort food for people. I think it's easy. It's easy food for people, Chinese and pizza.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

And to me, like, so I love the Tostinos pizzas, the one that did you bake in the little squares. I mean, I remember when there were shirt is, but I think that's a nostalgia thing. Yeah, to me, yeah, so I like that type of pizza, but like if it's like I'm starving and it's like, man, what do I want to order? I would never go to pizza. It would, I would never ever you pick Chinese. Uh that anything else, taco bell, yeah, a burger, chicken nuggets, chicken wings, bread, sports, taco bells. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 40:36

What about the kids? What what would they pick if they were in charge? Uh I love pick jeans. She'd pick every time.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Every time. Archer would probably pick some type of like McDonald's.

SPEAKER_03 40:45

Oh, it's McDonald's something. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

He would do like I'm around, then he would be like, think we should get Chen instead.

SPEAKER_03 40:54

Oh, because he knows you like it.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

Or like, think we should get, what do you think about Mexican? Get some cheese and it's funny because like we were like he was here yesterday and he's like, what do you think about Mexican dad? I was like, you know, you don't like Mexican, like you've all the cheese dip, but like you don't order Mexican, like you have like chicken nuggets or a burger or the American menu. Yeah, he has the Mexican menu on Mexican.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Well, because he was mad at us because we went and had Mexican just the two of us. Um, like you guys went Mexican food? Like, thanks for the invite. That's exactly what you said. And we were like, you don't even like Mexican. Like, you literally have a pizza when you're there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:31

It's like, so I mean, and what what was Arlen's pick if he was in charge?

SPEAKER_02 41:40

He so Arlen was our buggy eater.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

Oh no, like lobster. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He was and like he would like he would get adult menu stuff. Yeah. It would drive me crazy because like when we first started dating, like it wasn't that expensive. Like, because when we first started dating, like they would order off like the kids' menu.

SPEAKER_04 42:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

And then like when he got uncomfortable, like we would go somewhere, whether it'd be like a steakhouse, and he's like, think I can get like the think I get the steak and shrimp or like the chicken and lobster. Yeah. Or like crab, like you want crabs. I'm like, what the hell? But like that's at least you would order like an $80 you know meal.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

Like so, but it's funny though, because the first time he asked, you were like, Well, if you eat all of it, if you eat your full plate, then absolutely like you can have you can order off the adult vendu from now on. And oh already it's like a child's expectation. He was like, absolutely, no problem. He ate every last bite, like of the side, and like there was not anything left on this plate. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

And I was like, Oh, you can eat buffet, that kid would love it. Well, he's the one because I remember the first time I think I took him without y'all, it was when Jess's dad came in town and I took Jessica and her dad and all the kids out to Chinese buffet. Yeah and I and like I knew he was gonna pay for it, so I went to the waiter and I paid for it. Oh, just and he was he was so irried about it. Because like if yeah, in his like generation, it's the oldest man pays. Oh, yeah. And he was so mad that I paid for it.

SPEAKER_02 43:22

He was that Merlin had how many plates? I feel like I heard this were like seven. It was a lot.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Oh my goodness, and it wasn't just like like you know, most kids are going just chicken, you know, chicken onions or like the sweet and sour chicken, and he's getting like full plates of like I got some rice, I got like lomaine.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

Oh, uh like because he was always pretty small. I mean, he was taller for his age. I don't think he was like particularly tall. No, he's pretty average, I would say. Yeah, um, but like his average fighting and weight, like he was never overweight in his life. Yeah, super skinny if we know he could like put away some freaking food. And then remember when he went through his milk phase and he was drinking like I drank a whole gallon by myself. Yeah, and he was training for the NBA, but he was training for the NBA. Oh my god, how much milk?

SPEAKER_00 44:14

So that's crazy. Some of the amount of food and amount of like the liquid. Again, we'd have to have him like like you can't have a snack in the but he would eat it though. Like if you were like, you're gonna ruin your supper, no, you'd never ruin us.

SPEAKER_03 44:28

No, he's silly.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

No, no.

SPEAKER_03 44:32

Well, while you came in mid-chapter and wrote yourself in anyway, you didn't have to do it the way you did. You could have just been the guy who lived in the house, and nobody would have blamed you for that. But you chuckled to dinner, you sat in the bleachers, and you signed the papers, and you did all of it before you knew for sure how everything was going to turn out. That takes something a lot of people do not have. Thank you for talking about it today. Thanks everybody for listening. We'll be back next week. See you then.